22 replies to this topic

[AC556]

Ideals on the value of this package?

http://www.sturmgewe....cgi?read=70749


Thanks

[giantpanda4]

Phil,
I would tend to think an excellent cond 28 is getting $18 - $22K nowadays.
Why do you put the NACs so much lower? I would like to buy it for that!

[AC556]

QUOTE (PhilOhio @ Mar 6 2006, 05:37 PM)

That's quite a confused seller description of what the gun is, and the asking price is so far out of the ball park that... Hard telling what the drum is.  Case looks like a nice repro of some sort.  Could be a good shooter. Maybe $12K - $14K? It may take a couple months before the guy decides that's how things are in the real world. "OBO" indeed.

Another ad for this gun.

http://www.subguns.c...query=retrieval

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

This is one of the Frankenstein TSMG's that Numrich assembled from various parts using a Savage/AO receiver. The wood looks new as does the case with the questionable hardware. I have no idea what this guy is talking about when he refers to Numrich buying the Bridgeport plant. Naturally, Numrich didn't buy the Bridgeport plant, nor the Utica, New York plant, nor any building associated with Colt or the WWII TSMG's.

Since he is beyond confused, as Phil concurs, asking for any more clarity on this piece might prove difficult.

If the Savage "Commercial" is in the $24K range, more or less, and good 1928 Savage/AO's are in the low $20K's, then this TSMG alone would be a little ahead of the WH 1928/M1 prices. Maybe in the $16K range?

[hawksnest]

IMHO this Thompson, with the added history of NAC, will bring between $19,000 and $21,000, without the accessories. Depending on the maker of the drum, add $800.00 to $1,200.00 for the accessories. My .02

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

QUOTE (hawksnest @ Mar 6 2006, 06:33 PM)

with the added history of NAC,

Exactly what would be the relevant historical cache of the "NAC" prefix/suffix stamped on the receiver?

[Z3BigDaddy]

QUOTE (PhilOhio @ Mar 6 2006, 05:37 PM)

That's quite a confused seller description of what the gun is, and the asking price is so far out of the ball park that... Hard telling what the drum is. Case looks like a nice repro of some sort. Could be a good shooter. Maybe $12K - $14K? It may take a couple months before the guy decides that's how things are in the real world. "OBO" indeed.

I'LL BUY IT!!!!! Tell me where to send the funds...

[docmolar]

I think the days of the 12-14k 28`s are far & few in between. I know I certainly would have been very glad to find any(other than WH )in that price range !!

[AC556]

I guess I’m confused, if people are asking 14K to 16K for a 1928 WH guns, shouldn’t an original WWII produced and marked gun regardless of who assembled it bring more than the WH guns?

[Z3BigDaddy]

QUOTE (AC556 @ Mar 6 2006, 06:53 PM)

I guess I’m confused, if people are asking 14K to 16K for a 1928 WH guns, shouldn’t  an original WWII  produced and marked gun regardless of who assembled it  bring more than the WH guns?

You're not the one that is confuZed...... You understand supply and demand 101, others... well nuff said.....

But btaim, I think I would rather spend 23K on a military gun or a real commercial gun.... I'm with Arty on this one.... But what do I know I just spent as much as some people estimate for this gun, on a POS 1928.....

[TD.]

It very well could be just a NAC (serial number) suffix Thompson, one of many imported and sold by Numrich Arms Corporation. I understand these were imported as complete guns, stamped NAC at the end of the serial number, and sold to civilians, police departments, sheriff departments, etc. It is certainly worth the effort to check if someone was interested in a 28 Thompson. Many of these are owned by members of this board. I find it interesting that the NAC suffix is sometimes not included with the serial number on the Form 3/4.

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

Even the confused seller describes this piece as being "completely redone." The frame does not match the receiver and it has new wood. Can't determine what barrel and Cutts is on the weapon. Do not know if the internals are Savage/AO or WH. Going by these guidelines, and throwing in the indifferently constructed case, the XX mags, and the L drum, that MIGHT be a Worcester, or third pattern Colt, $18.5K would be a fair price for the set. If he advertised it for $20K, an interested buyer would have someplace to go with negotiations, or just bite the bullet.

A WH with a Savage/AO frame with WWII internals barrel and wood advertises for $15K with accessories. Putting aside the accessories (at least the L Drum), is an AO receiver with NAC suffix (imported or not), worth an extra $5K+ ? Now that all Thompson's are on the C&R list, the WH M1 that reportedly sold for $17K was premature by a few years.

If you look at the number of NFA items for sale on the internet, it seems that supply is keeping pace with demand in that many languish on the boards because of ambitious pricing. How does this "NAC" piece poll vault over the price of matching WWII issued Savage 1928's?

[AC556]

I didn’t want to start a debate. So I have requested and received more information. Everything was verified by pictures. I know (photo shop).

Left side of receiver is marked
U.S. MODEL 1928 A1
No. A O 134XXX
WB Waldemar Broberg and a Flaming Ordnance Bomb left side by mag well.

It has a Checkered Actuator.
2 alignment lines on the barrel and receiver are off about a 1/4".
It has a Lyman fixed sight and the Thompson logo in front of it.
It has the compensator with the Thompson Bullet logo struck on the left side.

Right side of the receiver is marked with patent dates.
It is also marked
AUTO-ORDNANCE CORPORATION
BRIDGEPORT, CONNECTICUT,U.S.A.

Lower is an AO with a mismatching serial number.

Finish looks like a dark parked finished.

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

AC556,

The description as you verified from the pics suggests a Price Is Right anywhere from $17,500-$19,500 with the only valuable accessory being the still undetermined drum. I would still place it on the low end of the scale because of the replacement wood, AO instead of Savage, mismatched frame, multiple ordnance make overs and the Numrich touch.

Did you ask him about the "Numrich purchased Bridgeport factory" aspect and by what scale he used to arrive at the $23.5K figure?

[TD.]

AC556 - thank-you for obtaining more information.

Question: where are the NAC markings on the receiver. I think I know, but I do not want to assume anything. It would be great if you could post a picture of the serial number markings. If you have a picture, contact me and I will be glad to post it.

Generally speaking, if all the receiver markings appear complete and original with the exception of the NAC letters at the end of the serial number, there is a good chance this was complete Thompson as acquired by Numrich Arms Corporation. The mismatched upper and lower are common (and does detract from value). The acceptance stamps of Walemar Broberg and the Flaming Ordnance Bomb seem to indicate originality. Most likely, an in person inspection by someone who is very familiar with WWII Thompson’s would have to be performed to make a good educated judgment on the history of this Thompson. If the Thompson is deemed to be an original, the NAC markings would not detract from value or add to value on this Thompson.

[John Jr]

Its not a colt so its basically worthless...ah the good ole days................$3 magazines, $20 drums.........retirement



It will bring in the lower 20's. greed is among us.............not that...................oh hell................



ron...I mean John ....Jr....

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

TD,

The "NAC" is a suffix after the serial number. While mismatched frames and receivers are "common," it does indeed effect value especially when the seller wants $23.5K. There are numerous clues to suggest that, while the receiver is not from a parts crate, it has seen some jumbling of parts that go beyond ordnance tune ups. As to the "NAC" stamping, you are right it doesn't hurt it as much as if it were a crate receiver, but I have yet to see a "NAC" stamping add value.

JJ,

Even Henry Youngman eventually retired his stale act. Perhaps you might emulate him.

[TD.]

AC556 obtained some pictures that will help solve the mystery behind this Thompson. Here is the overall picture:



The next one is a close up of the serial number and NAC markings.



The last two numbers have been blocked out by the seller. The NAC stamping is clearly visible as a serial number suffix. I see nothing in these pictures to indicate this is not a normal 1928 Auto-Ordnance Thompson that in all likelihood was imported and sold by Numrich Arms Corporation. This does not mean I would not want to have it inspected by someone who was very familiar with WWII Thompson’s. As Arthur and others have stated, this Thompson has several other issues that certainly affect pricing.

Thanks AC556 for sharing the pictures.

[colt21a]

is this the one tom stewart is selling in phx.az??that all the talk is about?? t.c.ron

[Roland, Headless Thompson Gunner]

This gun has been listed since January as has the following. I passed on a nice 28 priced at 21K before haggling though I think it went soon afer.

Someday, when Arthur and others have ceased to pen their learned ruminations, the NAC will just be viewed as another variant that a serious, or obsessed collector would have to have just becuase of its uniqueness. I can't see how it being a NAC would detract from its value in the long haul.

http://www.subguns.c...query=retrieval