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How Illegal Is This!


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#1 Norm

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 10:23 PM

Check out this auction on Gunbroker: 27A1 modified bolt

Seller does not mention any NFA papers on it, but does say that it will convert your gun to open-bolt.

My advice....avoid this item!

Norm

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#2 Grey Crow

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 10:30 PM

I've never herd of a bolt to make a 27 FA, but a firing pin is available with proper paper work. The seller lists it for the A5 pistol.


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#3 PK.

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 08:59 AM

The item shown and described is a machine gun. Unless he has papers for it someone is in big trouble.
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#4 John Jr

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 09:01 AM

QUOTE (Grey Crow @ Mar 7 2006, 09:30 PM)
I've never herd of a bolt to make a 27 FA, but a firing pin is available with proper paper work. The seller lists it for the A5 pistol.

Seems there is an old fart on the board who likes BMW sports cars who has a conversion device... tongue.gif
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#5 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 01:02 PM

QUOTE (John Jr @ Mar 8 2006, 09:01 AM)
QUOTE (Grey Crow @ Mar 7 2006, 09:30 PM)
I've never herd of a bolt to make a 27 FA, but a firing pin is available with proper paper work.  The seller lists it for the A5 pistol.

Seems there is an old fart on the board who likes BMW sports cars who has a conversion device... tongue.gif

So what is the difference between a porcupine and a BMW?
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#6 Junebug

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 01:19 PM

No disrespect intended, but if I remember the joke correctly, the porcupine has the pricks on the outside, while the BMW has....well, you get it! wink.gif
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#7 kilroyjones

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 09:58 PM

QUOTE (PK. @ Mar 8 2006, 08:59 AM)
The item shown and described is a machine gun. Unless he has papers for it someone is in big trouble.

PK,

Not arguing with your answer, but I have a couple of questions.....

Why would the modified bolt by itself be considered a machine gun? The bolt alone wouldn't make the gun full auto unless the disconnector was modified as well. Is an "open bolt" semi gun considered a class 3 by the ATF?

The auction looks like a winning ticket for a 10 year Federal vacation. Amazing what some people will buy and sell online
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#8 PK.

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 11:22 PM

kilroyjones

The law says stuff like ‘readily converted to’ and ‘easily adapted’ and ‘part designed to’ etc. It’s to late to go dig up a quote. The crux of the matter is that if that bolt is placed into a semi gun with the disconector removed it will fire FA all day (or until something breaks). That makes it (the bolt alone) a machinegun.


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#9 amafrank

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 12:10 AM

Just to add a little bit here- the ATF posted some letter rulings in 1982 concerning open bolt semi autos which it (the ATF) deemed to be machineguns. These were the MAC's, Spitfires, KG-9's and maybe another type. There was also another letter concerning another open bolt semi which was also determined to be a machinegun by virtue of its readily convertible status. ATF stated in one or both of these letters that an open bolt semi auto is readily convertible and therefore is a machinegun.
Having some experience with the washington types I would go with PK on this and say that ATF would probably call this an MG. Its not worth the risk in any event......
Hope that adds a little more to the mix
Frank


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#10 TommyGunner

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 08:50 AM

PK is spot on. Same reason why the broadhead armory pins must be registered.

Damon

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#11 kilroyjones

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 06:17 PM

Thanks for the replies.

I had forgotten about "readily converted". Like I mentioned in my first post, I didn't disagree with what PK said. I just wanted to know the reasoning. Not that reason and logic apply when dealing with the goverment rolleyes.gif
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#12 NotDeaf

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 08:19 AM


… okay, I understand the "readily converted" part. But, what if you purchased it and then removed and destroyed the firing pin? It’s still a semi-auto bolt? This bolt sells for $140.00 new and if I can get it for $25.00 with out the headache with the ATF would be a good think …

…. Any comments are welcomed …. Or if you know where a semi–auto bolt is for $25.00, please let me know..

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#13 PK.

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 09:10 AM

Right now, whoever has this is in felony violation of the law. If you purchase it and he sends it to you across state lines, that's two more laws broken: 1- you knowingly purchased an illegal machine gun and 2- he sent an illegal machine gun in interstate commerce.

As soon as the post man drops it on your porch you are now in possession of an illegal machine gun.

That’s to many felonies for me to save $115. Besides, you don’t know where or how this thing was welded & how easily it might clean up, not to mention the possible negative heat effects of the welding.

I’m not a lawyer and I don’t want to be, but this is not good, any way you slice it.

Keep in mind that ATF is online too and may be watching this part closely.

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#14 NotDeaf

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 12:04 PM


Good advise …. Point well taken … buying the bolt from the dealer is worth $140.00
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