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1928 Wh Thompson Range Report


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#1 hrt4me

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 04:45 PM

I have been having problems with my 1928 West Hurley Thompson since I got the approved Form 4 a month ago. It doesn't work well, but a friend suggested replacing the crappy WH parts with GI parts. I've ordered a 1928 parts kit from Daniel Tobin, but still awaiting that. Well, today, it doubled on me once on semi, and then shortly thereafter, I got a bullet lodged in the barrel. So first, how do I get the bullet out of the barrel without damaging the barrel or any other parts? And then, any suggestions on what to check as to why the gun doubled on semi? Thanks.
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#2 railroader

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 04:57 PM

I'm not a gunsmith, but if the bullet is not too far into the barrel, you should be able to drive it out with a dowel from the muzzel end. As far the gun doubling on semi, I would replace all my internals when you get your parts kit, and see what happens. How did you get a bullet stuck in the barrel? Are using reloads? If so, may one didn't have any powder in the case. A primer will sometime be enough to drive the bullet out of the case and into the barrel, but not far. Good luck.
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#3 reconbob

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 05:57 PM

Sounds like you have more than one problem, but doubling is caused by the bolt not recoiling
far enough back to be grabbed by the sear on the first shot, so it cycles again. A variety of things
could cause this. A bullet lodged in the barrel is because there is not enough power to get it all the
way thru. Either bad ammo, or fired out of battery. If it fired out of battery you'd have a damaged
or sooty cartridge casing.

Bob
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#4 hrt4me

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 09:33 PM

My 1928 WH Thompson hasn't been running right since I got my Form 4 approved 4 weeks ago (only been to the range twice though). The problem I have been having is that when I pull the trigger, the open bolt would go forward, strip a round from the magazine, chamber the round, but not fire. Upon pulling the bolt knob back, the round would come out of the chamber with a light firing pin strike, and the bullet itself seemed to be pushed back slightly in the case. Sometimes it would actually fire, but more often than not, it would not.

After consulting with a fellow TSMG owner, I figured the problems with mine were related to the stick mags and the crappy WH mag catch. So today, all I was doing was firing on semi (that's all the range would allow) and loading 2 or 3 rounds at a time in the stick magazine (until it doubled), and thereafter only a single round at a time into the stick magazine (to test function).

The same thing happened today when the bullet lodged in the barrel..... I pulled the trigger, the open bolt went forward, stripped the single round from the magazine, chambered that round, but did not fire. There was not even a pop or anything indicating the primer went off. Upon retracting the cocking knob / bolt, the case came out of the chamber, but its bullet stayed in the barrel, spilling powder too. When I examined the case, the primer had a light indentation but had not gone off.

My 1928 parts kit is supposed to ship tomorrow, and I had already planned to replace all the WH parts with GI parts.

Any other thoughts?

Edited by hrt4me, 03 April 2006 - 07:04 AM.

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#5 Roland, Headless Thompson Gunner

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 10:38 PM

My WH 28 often doubles on semi even with my Savage lower. I can see that there is some play between the upper and lower and just hand squeezing the two together while dry firing creates different results. I just refer to the select switch settings as Full Auto and Semi Full Auto.


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#6 1921A

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 10:45 PM

You might ask board member "PK" about your problem. I had a few late production WH 1928's and M1's that came from the factory with tight chambers. Among other problems, it appears that they used a standard .45 acp pistol chamber reamer to cut the FA chambers. Some of the WH MI's had the same condition. Im not sure if all the guns were cut that way but some were. Check your chamber and if it's to tight it will need to be opened up to the original MG spec. You can also solve the problem by installing a GI barrel.

Greg Fox
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#7 guy sajer

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 10:48 PM

What ammo are you using ?
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#8 TD.

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 11:41 PM

hrt4me,
A Thompson will fire full auto when the fire control lever is on single if the rocker is installed backwards. This is something to check and may take care of the problem.

My 1928 West Hurley did the same thing even with the rocker installed correctly. However, when I changed out all the parts with those from a parts kit the problem disappeared. Be sure and change out the buffer assembly. The WH buffer assemblies are very cheap and cause many function problems, including firing full auto when the fire control lever is on single. I also suggest obtaining a new fiber disc. The parts kit should solve many of your problems.
Good Luck.

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#9 hrt4me

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 12:09 AM

I was using factory Remington 230-grain ball ammo.

At this point, I do not know what the rocker is, I am still learning Thompsons, but I will do my research... this WH 1928 will most likely going to PK for a check-up, tune-up, and overhaul. What is the best way to contact PK? What is the turnaround time on his work? Thanks!

Edited by hrt4me, 03 April 2006 - 07:06 AM.

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#10 Brickyard

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 03:22 AM

Couple of items to ponder:

You're gonna love that gun once we get it fixed.

I have had issues with REM ammo being under powered. Not ever shot in TSMG but have had several run-a-ways in other FA guns. I'd not use it but, that's not you immediate problem. You can get the bullet out of the barrel easily with a dowel or even a cleaning rod that you don't care for much. Save it as a memory of the frustration of spending 10k+ and not being able to shoot the gun without hoping it might work. The problems are probably all that have been listed and then one or two more.

Now, go to the top of the page, check members, search for PK., and send him a mail. The man is awsome. He's completely rebuilt my two TSMG's - one was a WH that I couldn't even get to fire a round much less double on semi.

Price is what it is. Absolutely fair with no questions. Trust the man. Did I say to trust the man? What I meant to say was trust the man. I don't know the backlog he's dealing with right now? I'm just glad I've got one of my other guns in the line in front of yours (sorry).

It'll be a few weeks - probably - that's for PK to tell you. But the point is, why delay? Get your parts kit and send it and the gun out there ASAP. Start the clock. It's such a great gun. Shoot it, enjoy it and learn about it instead of having to bitch at it or "not take it out 'cause you don't really know if it'll run or not".

I think I forgot to tell you to trust the man?

Welcome to a great group of folks. Good luck and you'll NEVER sell that gun once it runs like it's suppose to.

Let us know how it runs when it comes home. We probably will have to say we told you so but you'll never hear us with those ear plugs in ....

CJR
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#11 45wheelgun

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 05:56 AM

HRT4ME,

Welcome. Don't let these bumps in the road get you down. My WH wouldn't work at all before I installed a WWII parts kit. In my case, the upper was all that needed work. My WH actuator broke on my first trip to the range. The good news was that after replacing all of the internal upper parts it ran like a dream.

Something else, my WH didn't have an internal oiler (felt pad thingy) and several people told me it wouldn't have worked without it. I'm not sure it that was true or not, but parts kit+oiler and it didn't miss a beat again.

While PK is an amazing Thompson Doctor, I didn't need his service to my WH, just a parts kit.

Good luck with it. My WH is by far the best "big boy toy" I ever owned.

Dave



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#12 hrt4me

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 07:01 AM

The recoil spring guide on my WH 1928 Thompson is shorter and thicker than those on the Colt 1928 Thompsons in my office. Could this be an issue? Also, the Colt 1928 Thompson's bolt is slightly shorter (maybe 1/32") than the bolt in my WH 1928 Thompson, and the rear of the bolts are slightly different too (one has rounded edges, the other does not, but at this point, I cannot remember which one has what).

I field-stripped one of the Colts in my office next to my own personal WH 1928 to compare parts and such. That's when I learned my own WH 1928 Thompson also does not have the breech oiler with felt pads either, so I was thinking that may be one of the things wrong with it. As soon as my own parts kit from Daniel Tobin arrives, I will install the breech oiler with felt pads.

What spare parts should I keep on hand? I hear the actuators break, and the breech oiler with felt pads also wears out (in the office, we have four broken actuators in the parts bin, as well as several broken breech oilers with felt pads). Any other recommended spare parts to stock?

In terms of the parts kit I am getting from Daniel Tobin, can I just use the complete lower frame assembly from the parts kit on my WH 1928 Thompson, or should I use the lower which came on my gun and actually swap the parts one-for-one?

Finally, where and how should the 1928 Thompson be lubricated? I hear they love to run wet with lots of lubricating oil.

Thanks for all the tips!
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#13 PK.

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 07:48 AM

Your chamber is, without a doubt, to tight. As has been mentioned, the WH barrels were chambered with pistol reamers, and many with worn out reamers at that. It will never run well until this problem is corrected.

The vast majority of WH receivers had the bolt pockets machined to deeply. This combined with excess vertical play between the frame and receiver will cause doubling in single mode as the bolt will override the rocker.

I have never seen a WH made gun that did not require some degree of rebuilding to either insure it’s function or longevity. Replacing the WH parts with GI is a must, but while it may resolve some function problems, it will not resolve the latent discrepancies found in all WH receivers.

FWIW


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#14 sten guy

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 08:41 AM

My WH M1 had the same problem. I couldn't fire 2-3 rds without having a failure to fire. I replaced the lower with a military and most of the problem went away. But the chamber was too tight. So after a trip to PK, I have yet had the problem happen again. smile.gif

STEN
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#15 hrt4me

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 04:26 PM

UPDATE
I dislodged the bullet from my barrel. Actually it was fairly easy to remove. First, with the muzzle facing up, I applied some drops of oil down the barrel and waited a few minutes for it to flow down the barrel to where the bullet was lodged. Then I took a wooden dowel and slowly lowered it into in the barrel. The wooden dowel did not touch the rifling at all as I lowered it down the barrel, yet it was large enough in diameter that it didn't wobble around on the nose of the bullet. I marked on the dowel where the muzzle was, and then removed the dowel and held it alongside the barrel.

This showed me the bullet was lodged in the barrel just forward of the chamber. Thus, as I had previously reported, upon pulling the trigger, the open bolt had stripped the single round from the magazine, shoved it into the chamber, but did not fire and left a light indentation on the primer. Then when I retracted the cocking knob/actuator, the cartridge case was extracted from the chamber, but the bullet stayed in place, spilling powder in the magazine well.

Then I slowly re-inserted the wooden dowel into the barrel again until it was resting on the nose of the bullet. Then I took a small brass mallet with the intention of just giving light taps at first to see whether it budged. Well, with the first light tap, the bullet was dislodged and fell into the ejection port opening.

I think the barrel is fine (not bulged), but nevertheless, this West Hurley 1928 Thompson is still going to PK for a check-up, tune-up, overhaul, repair, whatever it needs to run.

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#16 full auto 45

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 09:21 PM

I had one of mine do that some time back. Hell I just took a cleaning rod and smacked it down the barrel. Out came the bullet. Turned out to be a weak load in some shit brand of ammo. I will no longer use that brand made in Miami Florida.
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#17 JimFromFL

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Posted 04 April 2006 - 01:07 PM

Just wondering...
When you purchased it, did the seller mention that it worked great or did they disclose the problems to you? dry.gif


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#18 hrt4me

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 07:57 AM

When I bought it, the seller told me it ran fine. I didn't know enough about Thompsons then (especially the West Hurley guns) to ask the right questions about GI internals, etc. Caveat emptor, I guess.
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#19 TSMGguy

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Posted 08 April 2006 - 05:04 PM

Your TSMG problems are not unusual. My WH M1 was truly a POS when I bought it, even though it was NIB. After its trip to PK, it's the nicest thing in the vault.

Don't hesitate, just send it off for the work it needs and deserves. Before you do, give your project a great deal of thought. Do the research and decide what you really want. PK can emulate a TSMG with features from any era, from the early Colt's, to the commercial Savages, right on up to the WWII M1928A1s. You might even wish to maintain your WH '28 just as it is, but have it throughly debugged.

Imagine your gun as a piece of functional art, perfect in every detail. PK can do it for you.

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#20 JimFromFL

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Posted 08 April 2006 - 06:13 PM

QUOTE (TSMGguy @ Apr 8 2006, 05:04 PM)
Your TSMG problems are not unusual. My WH M1 was truly a POS when I bought it, even though it was NIB. After its trip to PK, it's the nicest thing in the vault. <p>Don't hesitate, just send it off for the work it needs and deserves. Before you do, give your project a great deal of thought. Do the research and decide what you really want. PK can emulate a TSMG with features from any era, from the early Colt's, to the commercial Savages, right on up to the WWII M1928A1s. You might even wish to maintain your WH '28 just as it is, but have it throughly debugged.<p>Imagine your gun as a piece of functional art, perfect in every detail. PK can do it for you.

Nicely stated and some good adivce.
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