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Source For A Safe?


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#1 ThompsonCrazy

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Posted 12 November 2003 - 10:06 PM

Does anyone know of a good source for used, unfinished or scratch & dent, Gun Safe. Finish would not be important so older ones are fine as well. Just as long as it is strong. It needs to be around 350lbs as it is going on a second floor. Nothing extravagent just to keep some spare parts, long arms, pistols, other important non-related B.S. in. I am in the SE Michigan area so IL, OH, MI anywhere close?
Anyone selling a smaller one to move onto a bigger one?
Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
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#2 M1Brian

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 11:42 AM

I did the same thing. Mine didn't come with the combo and was locked. It was a Diebold used in a hospital so it was painted white. I called ten different locksmiths and they all told me they needed to get in touch with J.R. to make entry into the safe. After J.R. broke in and reset the lock I stripped, painted and made a carpeted interior for the safe. The quailty of the older box seems better then some of the ones out there now. The way I figure it I saved enough to buy a case of 45acp. and you know what that means. Time to take the Thompson out of the safe.
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#3 giantpanda4

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 07:08 PM

I would suggest the Ammo Dump in Williamston, MI (517-655-1347). They are a Fort Knox dealer and/or distributer. I bought one, and I am nothing but pleased with it. I know Fort Knox may be a bit more than the average 350# safe you are looking for, but Mike at Ammo Dump does occassionally get safes returned (they are fully warranted when new) for warranty claims such as bad paint. They can be bought from him (if he has any) for less than the new ones, and other then cosmetics, they are an excellent safe!
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#4 john

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Posted 17 November 2003 - 10:43 AM

If you have a copy of a Sportsman's Guide catalog, call the number and ask for the outlet store.
They usually have at least 2 or 3 slightly dented safes (or Homak lockers) sitting in the store for less than half of a new one. I'm sure if you bought one based on a phone description they would ship it....they are, after all, a mail-order business!!

I have a Homak locker (fairly sturdy with pretty secure locks) that I bought there for $58.00 (usually $119.00) that has a small dent in the side. I pounded most of it out....looks good! I bolt it to the floor of my van when I travel with my machineguns. It's not the most secure, but it'd be hard to swing a large prybar inside the van!!

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#5 Pa Deuce

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Posted 17 November 2003 - 11:56 AM

I agree with GiantPanda4. Ft. Knox will NOT disappoint you. I bought one new from them when I lived in Mississippi, moved it to Arkansas, and, finally Grand Forks ND. When the flood of 1997 destroyed my basement, and the safe (thank God I was able to move my weapons up to the ground floor before we were evacuated) Ft. Knox got their records out and credited the price I paid for it toward a new one, same model. I wonder how many safe manufacturers would do this for you? You will not feel insecure when you leave home on vacation. Again, this is for a NEW safe!
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#6 Grey Crow

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Posted 17 November 2003 - 10:54 PM

TC,

Look around your area for companies that deal in safes. Also if you are looking at commercial gun safes, be sure to check out the fire rating times as well as the UL listing.

Most gun safes are listed as consumer storage boxes. Not very high in security.
I owned a few Browning Pro Steel safes over the years and they basically were steel boxes with pretty paint jobs. << Don't mean to step on any toes. But do some homework it will all pay off in the end.
I recently acquired a jewelers safe. The unit did require some adjustment for the interior, removal of drawers and the building of racks to hold guns. I can't speak for some of the other gun safe makers but the Brownings have about a 15 second entrance time for those that work that industry.

You can sometimes acquire safes from the insurance companies that are ding and dent types that still have their integrity.

FYI: Make sure your floor is in good shape the safe I bought weighs in at 3,800 lbs. If someone grabs it they won't run very far!

The bottom line is what is the intent for the safe? Maximum theft security? Fire resistant? Or Both! The more secure and resistant you reach for the heavier it will be and you will pay a much higher price.

Below is the list of UL ratings:

Net Working Time - This is the UL term for testing time which is spent trying to break into a safe using tools such as diamond grinding wheels, high-speed drills with pressure applying devices, or common hand tools such as hammers, chisels, saws, and carbide-tip drills. If a safe has been rated with a 30-minute net working time, (TL30), the rating certifies that the safe successfully withstood a full 30 minutes of attack time with a range of tools.

Theft resistant - This rating means the safe provides a combination lock and minimal theft protection.

Residential Security Container rating (RSC) - This UL rating is based on testing conducted for a net working time of five minutes, on all sides, with a range of tools.

TL-15 rating - The TL-15 rating means the safe has been tested for a net working time of 15 minutes using high speed drills, saws and other sophisticated penetrating equipment.

TL-30 rating - A product carrying the TL-30 security label has been tested for a net working time of 30 minutes with the same types of tools mentioned above.

TL-30 x 6 - The TL-30 (30-minute) test is conducted on all six (6) sides of the safe.

TRTL-30 - The TRTL rating designates a safe which successfully resisted 30 minutes of net working time with a torch and a range of tools which might include high speed drills and saws with carbide bits, pry bars, and other impact devices.

UL manufacturing follow-up - This exclusive service assures that the customer is buying a unit that is exactly like the one that successfully passed UL testing.

Fire Ratings Impact test - The UL impact test calls for the safe to be heated to 1550 degrees for 30 minutes (1638 degrees for a 2-hour fire rated safe) then dropped onto concrete rubble from a height of 30 feet. The safe is then turned upside down and reheated for another 30 minutes (45 minutes for a 2-hour fire rated safe). During this process, it must maintain its integrity and protect all contents in order to pass the UL impact test.

Explosion hazard test - All UL fire-rated safes must undergo this test, during which the unit is inserted into a pre-heated 2000 degree oven. If the safe is not constructed properly, the rapid heating will likely cause an explosion.

Class 350 1/2-hour fire rating - During this test, the safe is heated for one-half hour to reach an exterior temperature of 1550 degrees. Because paper will begin to char at approximately 400 degrees, the unit being tested must maintain an interior temperature of less than 350 degrees during heat-up and cool-down testing in order to earn its rating.

Class 350 1-hour fire rating - To earn this rating, the safe is heated for one hour to reach an exterior temperature of 1550 degrees, then put through the cool-down test. During this time the safe must maintain an interior temperature of less than 350 degrees.

Cool-down test - This procedure is a key part of UL's fire testing procedures. After a one- or two-hour fire rating test, the safe is left in the oven for cool-down time with the heat turned off. Because of the intensive heat of one- and two-hour tests, the temperature inside the safe will continue to rise for up to one hour after the oven is turned off. To pass UL testing, the safe's interior temperature may not exceed 350 degrees at any time during heat-up or cool-down procedures.

Class 350 1-hour fire & impact label - The safe has passed both UL impact testing and Class 350 1-hour fire testing (see above).

Class 350 2-hour fire rating - The safe is heated for two hours to reach an exterior temperature of 1550 degrees and must maintain an interior temperature of less than 350 degrees to earn this rating. Class 350 2-hour rating and impact label - The safe has passed both UL impact testing and Class 350 2-hour fire testing (see above).

UL Follow-up - This service allows a UL inspector to drop in unannounced and at any time to check that all units at a manufacturing site are being built under the same construction methods used for previously tested units.
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