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Wtk: Value Of Amnesty Registered M1a1 Thompson?


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#1 USMC-2-USN

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 02:54 AM

I recently (tonight) purchased a Auto Ordnance, Bridgeport thompson that was acquired "on or about July 1943" in the pacific theatre and registered in the 1968 amnesty. It is in approximately 93% condition with original sling and a mailing crate from the U.S. Navy where they shipped it home for the vet! Included were all of the 1968 documantation and a story on how the vet came to acqure it and bring it home.

The Thompson is a blued variant in the mid 500,000 range. the lower is not marked but matches color, and it is NOT us property marked

Thanks for any insight into value...this is my first thompson out of a 10 gun NFA collection and i am very excited about it! I just kinda fell into the opportunity to purchase it (was not looking for a thompson)
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#2 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 09:59 AM

The U.S. Navy knowingly packaged and shipped a TSMG to the home of a Swabby, or Jarhead, during WWII? Other than the ATF form of registration, what sort of "documentation" are you referring to regarding the combat use of this particular Thompson? One should always dismiss any tales about how a particular weapon saw action in a particular battle when negotiating price. Unless you are buying directly from the vet themselves, and they have a vintage photo of them carrying the weapon with a close up of the serial number, it's just a story.
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#3 USMC-2-USN

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 10:20 AM

I am not sure the Navy actually knew what they were shipping. The vet claims that he had it in a trunk along with the rest of his personal belongings that he left in the Phillipenes(sp?). He got shipped to Okinawa Japan for something and when he returned his personal stuff was gone, the Navy had assumed that he was dead and mailed his stuff back to his parents house (the address he had on his foot locker). He was a US naval officer (just as i am..that is why he sold it to me)

The documentation i am referring to are letters he wrote to an ATF agent inquiring about how to register it back when the amnesty started. Also the original amnesty registration dated Nov 26, 1968 and the 'story' about how he came to acquire the gun and use it in several battles including tarawa (the only major one i can remember)...no pictures of him holding it over dead bodies with a close up of the serial number unfortunately

Just looking for an approximate value for insurance purposes.
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#4 TSMGguy

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 11:34 AM

It was certainly easier for officers to ship the more "interesting" items home than it was for enlisted men, as their effects were not searced prior to or during shipment.

My amnesty registered MP40 was picked up at Normandy by a US Army FA major and brought home in the bottom of his foot locker. My K-43, removed new from the rack at the capture of the Walther factory by elements of the 9th Infantry, came back to the US in a Boyt made Garand hard rifle case in a B-24, accompanied by its then Lt. Colonel owner.

My father, on the other hand, was a young Tech 5 with the 6th Engineer Special Brigade when he landed at Omaha beach at about 0830 the morning of June 6th, 1944. His luger was stolen from his personal effects during shipment home, along with the photos he took that amazing morning and shortly thereafter. I still have his captured K98, which he carefully disassembled, crated, and shipped home to my grandfather, through the APO. This was taken from a pile of captured weapons just outside of Liege. He had his pick of hundreds.

Congratulations on the acquisition! Sounds as though it never went through the post war depot rebuild as so many did. That's a real piece of history! My personal just-a-guess -- 10-12K.

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#5 John Jr

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 08:37 PM

Geez Aurther, give the guy a break. You need one over the head sometimes I think!

I would go with about 8-10K on it. Buy a good safe, tommorow.

John Jr

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#6 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 09:00 PM

John Jr,
I defer to you about all things concerning head.

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#7 The1930sRust

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 09:23 PM

Well, that ought to make USMC2USN feel all warm and gooey inside. USMC, ignore Arthur. He's a sad sort. Unfortunately, all boards have these types. Just search for all of his posts here and you'll get the idea. At any rate, welcome, and congrats on your fine weapon. BTW, I'd say 10k at least!

Love to see some images and hear more about it if you could be so kind.
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#8 USMC-2-USN

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 09:45 PM

I am going to take some pictures tomorrow evening after i drop form 4's off at the Sheriff's office. I will make the photos available to any interested parties who may be able to shed some light on particulars, criticisms, etc

I know that the lack of US property markings and the fact that the lower does not have a serial number detract from its value...but i was hoping the fact that it had some history and was amnesty registered would make up for it (although all should be amnesty registerd right?)

Any idea of the total number of M1A1 bridgeport transferables out there?
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#9 John Jr

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 10:04 PM

Nice Quote from Harris, Chris!

If I may be as bold, e mail them to The1930sRust and he will post them. Don't let shitforbrains (AF) pee on your parade about your guns history. I think its fantastic and he is jealous. Sounds like you have a wonderful historical gun. The US Property Markings on you gun dont devalue the gun at all. They SHOULD have them. The same markings on my 1911 Rem Rand don't devalue it. I dont think that amnesty registered means too much, but I am just stating my opinion on that.

Your gun is your gun. I know where A. Flemlooser is coming from however. Sometimes people make up stories to sell guns at gun shows and such. He was probably stupid enough to fall for it a few times. Thats where he is coming from.

Welcome to the Club. Your a Thompson owner. Have a beer!

Jr

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#10 Ron Mills

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 10:47 PM

You should be justifiably proud of your purchase, sir. Talk about being your lucky day! Yeah, we need to see pictures here. Most of us indeed "ooh" and "ahh" over newly posted Thompson pictures. It is interesting how some stuff made it back without being interfered with and others got stopped and dumped. There must 1000's of stories!

Ron

PS: Geez, Arthur, let us have some fun here!
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#11 Charlie

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 11:47 PM

USMC 2 USN

SIR, PLEASE TAKE SEVERAL CLOSE-UPS WHEN YOU TAKE THOSE PHOTOS. We really love getting a close-up view of the thompsons. And Sir, I don't believe ALL M-1/M1-A1 Thompsons had US PROPERTY marked on them, if I recall what Frank wrote in his book.

(Am I remembering wrong, guys?)

Anyway, welcome to the Board, Sir.


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#12 full auto 45

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Posted 17 November 2003 - 06:48 AM

The M1 I bought earlier this year was a WWII gun. Later used by the B & O Railroad police until the chief and the gun moved to a PD I bought it from. I gave $7k for it. The # range on it is 5116xx. Only about 15% of the guns had "U.S. Property" stamped on them. Mine doesn't. One I saw that was less than a 100 away from mine had it stamped on it. It's a good keeper. Don't let it get away or some people dis-hearten you about it.
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#13 PK.

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Posted 17 November 2003 - 09:07 AM

No time to research now, but if I recall correctly the US Property mark was only applied to lend lease guns and they stopped serializing the frames at some point later in production.
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#14 TSMG28

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Posted 17 November 2003 - 12:25 PM

USMC 2-USN,

Congratulations on your wonderful acquisition and welcome to the board. It sounds as though you have an excellent, original finish M1A1. The history of the weapon makes it all the more special, especially since you actually know the former owner. Documented history means a lot to those of us that are collectors.

Do not concern yourself with the lack of US PROPERTY markings or the serial number on the trigger frame. According to Frank Iannamico's book American Thunder, there is no clear documention on why US PROPERTY was placed on some weapons and not on others. As was mentioned earlier in this post, the best guess is that the property markings were only placed on weapons that were destined for Lend-Lease. If the weapon was to be issued to U.S. personnel, technically there was no requirement for the US PROPERTY designation. None of the trigger frames manufacturered after January 1943 had serial numbers on them. There was a goverment directive on 7 January 1943 to only mark the receiver. The absence of the two markings only means you have a later manufacture M1A1 which was not destined for Lend-Lease.

I have to agree with Chris (The1930sRust) that the price should be $10K range minimum. If you paid less, I would consider it a bargain. Hold onto it. The price is going nowhere but UP!

We will anxiously await your pictures and as much of the history as you are willing to share. A word of warning that has been posted on this board many times -- Thompsonitis is a serious desease with no known cure. Once you start, it is almost impossible to stop! biggrin.gif

Roger


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#15 full auto 45

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Posted 17 November 2003 - 08:41 PM

But does it have white paint in the lettering!? tongue.gif

Hey I just had to ask. I knew someone would.
I'll go stand in the corner now.
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#16 USMC-2-USN

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Posted 18 November 2003 - 06:43 AM

I sent pictures to 'The1930sRust' last evening. Pictures should either be posted soon, or he will send me links to post them myself.
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#17 ThompsonCrazy

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Posted 18 November 2003 - 12:02 PM

I had one of those oddly marked Thompsons years ago but did not know the significance....I sold it cheap too, for $29,999.00. Live and learn. That would be great if it was featured in an Oliver Stone movie. Possibly even the one that I owned.
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