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Can't Reassemble Tommy - Please Help!


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#1 Raphael

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Posted 18 November 2003 - 04:06 AM

I have a Kahr arms 1927A-1 Thompson and I shot it for the first time last weekend. Afterwards, I disassembled it to clean it. I had a lot of problems taking it apart, but eventually I got it. The main problems were with the latch lock (I couldn't figure out what it was catching on). I am at this point in reassembling it:

user posted image

and I am totally, literally, stuck. I can get it to the point where it shows in the picture and it absolutely will not slide back together. The receiver rails are completely flush with the guiderails, and there doesn't seem to be anything in the trigger area that is blocking anything.. It seems that something is stopping the top and bottom sections from sliding back together but I have closely inspected both parts and I can't see anything in the way. I spent about an hour fiddling with it and I just can't figure it out.

I was able to get the parts to close back together last night but I just can't get it now.

Please help!!!
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#2 Jay Baker

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Posted 18 November 2003 - 07:13 AM

I don't know about semi's, but on a 1928 the safety should be off and the trigger depressed to seperate. Hope this helps.
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#3 Sgt

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Posted 18 November 2003 - 08:31 AM

Raphael--
What your are experiencing is normal for the Kahr 27. It was not designed with an easy disassembly/ assembly catch. You will need to insert a small screw driver or pen knife inside the rear of the receiver, between the receiver and the trigger frame. You will lift up a spring loaded button with your knife. The receiver should then slide into position. That springed button tends to hang up at several points, so you may have to do this wherever it hangs. Hope this is not too confusing.
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#4 adlake

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Posted 18 November 2003 - 08:49 AM

I posted a fix for this and it works well in the semis I can slide my frame off and on with ez. Frame stays in place tighly as well-adlake
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#5 PK.

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Posted 18 November 2003 - 09:35 AM

The Frame Latch (the little spring loaded plunger in the rear of the receiver that engages the back of the frame when assembled) can hang up at certain points during the assembly/disassembly process. The most notable is when trying to disassemble the frame/receiver when the latch is caught by the sear and must be manually depressed with a tool to disengage as described by Ralph. There is a minor modification to the receiver that I make to all 27aís in my shop that eliminates this problem. Why AO hasnít incorporated something similar is a mystery to me.

The biggest difficulty in reassembly is when the parts are held as shown in the photo, the disconnector falls down into the receiver. Try holding the parts sideways so the disconnector stays in its proper place while sliding the frame/receiver together. On occasion a gun will be found where there is a gap between the safety and sear large enough to allow the frame latch to catch the edge of the safety while trying to reassemble. This can usually be overcome by manipulating the trigger and or safety while attempting to slide the frame/receiver together.

HTH

Edited by PK., 14 May 2009 - 08:00 AM.

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#6 Raphael

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Posted 18 November 2003 - 12:11 PM

I read all the replies and tried the suggestions, but it still will not budge. The frame latch lock doesn't seem to be the problem. I can see that it's pushed all the way up and it doesn't seem to be catching on anything. It's almost as if the guide rails on the frame won't go into the rails on the receiver. I can't figure out what is catching on what.

As PK mentioned, I thought the disconnector might be the problem but I've tried holding it upside down from what it shows in the picture AND sideways and something is still catching on something. I just can't see what it is.

I also tried pressing the trigger, but that's the opposite of what I want to do. I'm trying to REassemble it, and by pressing the trigger it moves the parts up to push the receiver out.

Thanks so much for all the replies, but sadly they didn't work. Anymore suggestions?
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#7 Bisley45

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Posted 18 November 2003 - 03:58 PM

if it is new there might be burrs or it might just fit really tight. You might try taking out the bolt and everything in the recever and try sliding the trigger housing on that way, if you have a burr or a real tight fit that will let you know. I have ocasionaly given my WH trigger group a LIGHT tap with a 7oz Stanley dead blow malllet, the orange no mar kind.

try it with just empty recever and trigger frame first! If it slides easy your likely hanging up on something. If you have the frame latch held down and the thing will not slide together fairly easily look for burrs, rough or high spots wher the bluing is scraped off etc...

BB
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#8 Walter63a

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Posted 18 November 2003 - 04:40 PM

Raphael, don't be discouraged! blink.gif It isn't you; It's a company called Kahr. ohmy.gif mad.gif sad.gif I had the same problem with my Kahr 1927A1. With mine, something was getting caught (hung-up) on the thin internal part (rod) of the safety switch (actually nicked up by something). I had this milled down at the shop I purchased the gun from. It has been fine ever since. smile.gif biggrin.gif cool.gif You might check that out, or look for any other nicks on the internal parts. I hope this helps. cool.gif Regards, Walter
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#9 Raphael

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Posted 20 November 2003 - 03:09 AM

After another hour of very close inspection and attempts to put it back together, it seems that the problem must be the guiderails. There is just nothing blocking anything in the trigger area/frame or the receiver/bolt. The only thing I can see that appears to be blocking are the receiver rails and the frame rails. I can't get the frame past the point where it shows in the picture (where the rails and frame start to hook together). Would you guys recommend filing down either the frame or guiderails a little?
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#10 PK.

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Posted 20 November 2003 - 08:48 AM

I would strongly suggest you not start filing blindly, you canít get back from there.

Have you tried removing the frame latch and reassembling? If it still wonít go, remove all the bolt components too, and try assembling the frame to the empty receiver. If that still wonít go, remove the pivot plate and empty all the parts out of the frame assy. If it wonít go together with all of the parts removed from both frame and receiver, there could be something wrong with the frame/receiver slide rails and it should be easy to see.

If the rails are to tight (this would be very unusual) it could be that they are bowed and filing would not be the proper course, straightening would be. You have got to make a proper analyses of the problem in order to relieve it correctly without making things worse.

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#11 Zoo

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Posted 20 November 2003 - 10:10 AM

The bolt can hang low and block the trigger frame if you try sliding them together with the gun right side up. Sideways is better. If you were doing it upside down, then this is probably not the problem.
Please do as others suggest and take systematically take out the internal parts. If everything else is out and the two slide together then the problem is not between the receiver and trigger frame.
And I think the safety does have to be off for the erassembly to work too. (Can't say for sure anymore, it's been a while since I've done it.)
Jeremy
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#12 Raphael

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Posted 14 December 2003 - 03:43 AM

It turned out that it was the rails. Some tiny metal burrs were getting in the way where the rails on the frame & the rails on the receiver join together and they were preventing it from sliding back together. After a little filing it now goes back together easily. The metal the Thompson is made out of is very soft and easy to file. The softness of the metal is probably what caused the problem because it wouldn't have "burred" if it was harder.

But that saved paying a gunsmith 100$ or sending it back & waiting a month or more to get it back. BTW, when I called Kahr Arms, I spoke with both of their repair guys. The one said he didn't know how to fix this specific problem and to talk to the other guy. The other guy said he would take a rubber mallet and hammer it until it fit back together and he said it's "really messy" and "there would be pieces all over the floor". He said he'd then have to totally refinish it and it would be "like getting a brand new gun". I thought that was kind of overkill, or at least unnecessary to have to totally remake the gun for such a simple problem, but he said that's how they do it...

However, they were both very friendly, and when I suggested simply using a metal file to file it down he said that was a good idea. smile.gif

He also assured me that filing it would NOT void the warranty, which I was concerned about.

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#13 Raphael

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Posted 14 December 2003 - 02:11 PM

LOL! Yeah... it makes me wonder how they can charge such a huge price for them. I don't think the price I paid was justified.
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#14 SecondAmend

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Posted 14 December 2003 - 02:36 PM

ALL guns have gotten way overpriced, not just Kahr and not just Thompsons. They (gun companies) used to blame the outrageous prices on the product liability risk but the gun companies having been winning the law suits. Ever since Bill Ruger died (he always tried to hold the line on prices) it seems like the costs have gone up way more than before.
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#15 Fencer

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Posted 14 December 2003 - 05:07 PM

This week American Rifleman on the "OutDoor" network will be reviewing
the Kahr Thompson in their technical section.

This could be amusing... or not.. rolleyes.gif
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#16 Raphael

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Posted 20 December 2003 - 04:29 PM

Fencer, what did they say about it?
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#17 Fencer

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Posted 20 December 2003 - 10:14 PM

Well it was sorta amusing for a couple reasons.

If you were Kahr, and you were sending a gun to "American Rifleman" to have as a "Technical Review" on their
TV show.. what would you do?

Pick a nice one.. tune it.. make sure it worked flawlessly.. right? Well they tried..

A few quotes...

"(Kahr) retooled Thompson's 80yr old design so that it can be manufactured with modern CNC machining to aid cost control and improve fit and finish." blink.gif

"at 8.5lbs the thompon's trigger was quite heavy with substantial takeup and gritty letoff."

"we experienced no failues (to feed) with FMJ bullets, but hollow points and semi wad cutters often failed to feed properly."

No drum shown.

Funny thing though... it appeared that as the show went on, that the front half of the barrel became discolored.
They even went so far as to not show the whole gun in some shots. In one close up you can definately see a blemish on the barrel.

It sounded like a cap gun going off!

And to think I am going to buy one of these things.. Thank God for PK.


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#18 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 20 December 2003 - 10:29 PM

Fencer,
That is hysterical. Why does a show like American Rifleman pretend to give honest evaluations, when all they want to do is shill for any gun manufacturer, regardless of the quality of the weapon being tested. The fact that they tried in vain to conceal Kahr's shortcomings is another nail in the credibility coffin.

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#19 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 21 December 2003 - 11:00 AM

Phil,
Lapierre is no Chuck Heston.

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#20 SecondAmend

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Posted 21 December 2003 - 01:20 PM

Amen, Arthur.

Fencer said, "Pick a nice one.. tune it.. make sure it worked flawlessly.. right? Well they tried.." - Back in the 60's and 70's un-named auto companies sent "blueprinted" vehicles to the motoring press for the test drives. The press kept on reviewing the same tweaked cars that were never what came off the showroom. Now the public buys Japanese and German cars. Is there a correlation?

Better Kahr send in what the buyer will get for $1041 (MSRP) for the review so that the buyer at least has an idea of what they will get.

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