Can't Reassemble Tommy - Please Help!
Posted 21 December 2003 - 01:59 PM
Of course! The car mags would never buy a test car when they knew the manufacturer would gladly provide a "demo" for free. What the gun mags, car mags, bike mags, etc., need to do is go to a retail outlet, and make a random selection from the lott, out of the display case, what have you. I guess that is what fueled Consumer Reports to get in on the action. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for them to ever do a comparison test on firearms though.
It does seem absurd that an 82 year-old factory made Colt TSMG can still shoot flawlessly, while a brand new West Hurley/Kahr needs to be massaged by PK before it can do what it was built and advertised to do; shoot. Strange how sometimes an inanimate object of wood and steel is greater than the sum of its parts, i.e. Colt TSMG, but the same type of components can also be less than the sum of its parts, i.e. Kahr.
Posted 21 December 2003 - 04:43 PM
CNC or no CNC, you have to care about what your doing, you can't pay 18year old HS dropouts who don't know an inch from a milimeter and don't care if they check parts as long as they draw a paycheck and expect quality. You also can't charge super high prices for stuff that doesn't work.
Sooner or latter someone will make a Semi thompson that works when you take it out of the box. If someone made a semi investment castings or no that worked Khar would be out of the Thompson busness.
Posted 28 December 2003 - 03:40 PM
Yesterday, I took it out for the 3rd time and I decided to try out the 10rd drum magazine. I loaded the rounds exactly as the manual states, put the top back on, and wound it 5 times (it said 4-6 times, so I figured the middle should be good). It fired the first 2 rounds with no problem, but when it tried to load the 3rd round it got jammed. The bullet part had come up into the receiver but the back was stuck down in the drum. ARGH! After fiddling around with it and moving the drum back and forth and a lot of swearing I finally got the back unjammed and it came up into the chamber. That round fired ok. Then all the other 6 rounds except 1 did the same thing. It was so frustrating. This gun is definitely not worth the >800$ paid for it. Is this a problem with not winding it enough, or just poor design?
Second, after I got it home, I opened it up to clean it. I discovered to my dismay that the entire inner area between the frame and receiver was covered with a small layer of rust. I had used a LOT of oil the last time I put it back together to ensure I would be able to slide it back off easily (see my first post in this thread about how I couldn't get it to slide back together), so there was plenty of lubrication. I had cleaned it very thoroughly and I just could not believe it. I used sandpaper and solvent and got off as much of the rust as I could and put some new blueing on. I checked it today and it looked ok (no new rust). Once again, is this a mark of poor quality metal or did I do something wrong??
Thanks for all your help.
Posted 02 January 2004 - 11:15 AM
Later that evening, I had my father check it out again. I loaded it and just popped out the rounds with my fingers and they were all jamming, and we could see where the hangups were. Once again, he discovered more burrs right at the opening which we suspected were causing the jams. Once again, he broke out the metal file kit and started filing. After a few minutes, he had me try loading it and they were still jamming. We did some more filing and I tried it again and some of them didn't jam. Then he did some more filing and I popped them all out and none jammed!!!!! However, it was dark at the time and I couldn't take it out and test it in the gun. But I'm pretty confident it will work now (or at least work a lot better).
I still had about 4 or 5 out of the 30 in the stick jam, so that is still a problem.
I have also noticed a small crack in the Disconnector where it bends 90 degrees, and it appears that there is a small crack in the receiver where the round ejects. I've been checking the disconnector crack carefully each time after I've shot it and it doesn't appear to be getting any worse, but I'm still concerned. If there are small cracks in those parts I can see, I wonder about the inner workings of the trigger area and the receiver...
I'm just amazed that they can sell an *unfinished* gun that the customer has to modify for such an outrageous price. I'm going to be writing a letter to Kahr to express my displeasure.
The only thing is, it is DEAD ON accurate! I think it's the most accurate gun I have, and it was sighted in almost perfectly out of the box. I don't think any other gun I have was. Because of the accuracy, easy of aim (which I can't understand because it has a peep sight), and no recoil, it's hard to really hate it.
However, despite the accuracy, I would recommend that everyone stay away from Kahr Thompsons, unless they slash their prices. It is not worth the 800$+!
Posted 03 January 2004 - 10:39 AM
I gave 860 for mine, and yes it did take a little tweaking to make it function.
I polished the feed ramps, replaced the magazine catch and picked up a few handful's of FA magazines.
It gave me a sick feeling the first time at the range when it jammed frequently. For me my Kahr 27 was a major expenditure, but one now that I do not regret.
After modifying the magazine catch to accept FA magazines they fit very snug. The accuracy is very good, and that was a surprise to me considering the quality of the mock Lyman sights.
The gun now works flawlessly with both stick mags and L drums.
It's in PK's hands now for SBR conversion as well as a few other modifications.
It is a sign of the times, unfortunately.
Posted 03 January 2004 - 06:34 PM
Let me first suggest while the gun is under the one year warrantee, to send an email to Kahr, with the serial number & tell them the firing pin broke !!!.......a month later, tell them the charging handle broke off from the fork......Then you will have a spare of each, if & when these break later....Once your one year is up, they pretend you don't exist....so get some parts now.....opps!.your extractor broke also, get a spare now, by emailing them and acting shocked ! ha!
I have had over 21 yrs with machine guns etc on tanks in the Army, and when I got my Kahr, I found out fast this experience would help to maintain & speed-up this sucker...........Yes the mags & drum all need 'adjusting', and certain things can be done to 'speed' up the bolt action to fire faster, but yet of course, still semi-action.
If you lived near Knob Creek, Ky, we could do all this together.....I have done some other things to mine, and I'll post some pics here asap...
You paid the cost of the the thing (yeah, really accurate), if you have the patience, and like the idea of working on it, you may even get to the point where you will love it, and want to SBR it. Ha...!
Go thru thr 1927A1 archives, and read..all the guys here are so smart, and have done it all.............jw
Posted 03 January 2004 - 09:08 PM
I also removed the butt plate and replaced it with a Springfield butt plate that I filed & bent to fit the Kahr stock. I also cut a nice big hole in the walnut for an oiler to go in the little hatch..........
When the firing pin breaks, do not throw away...Email me, and I will send you a pic of how to cut down the broken one, and make it better than it was. (right now, email Kahr and tell them your f/pin broke, so you have a spare; then, oh, your extractor broke next month too.)
Posted 03 January 2004 - 09:21 PM
Posted 03 January 2004 - 09:27 PM
Posted 04 January 2004 - 01:33 PM
They are obviously using the wrong materials and then not finnishing them right. Man o Man that would drive me nuts!
I have a early West Hurley 27A1 (1975) and straight out of the box, it shot thousands of rounds up until a year ago when something let go internally. PK has it now and all is well.
Could you imagine if a car maker produced a product like this?!
Posted 04 January 2004 - 01:55 PM
In the 1970's, Detroit car manufacturers were indifferent to quality control. They took American buyers for granted and figured they did not have any recourse. Enter Japan and Germany. As long as people continue to patronize Kahr, nothing will change. Having adjustments made after market by PK does not solve the problem, it only enables Kahr to stay in business.
Posted 04 January 2004 - 03:50 PM
I can imagine the frustration of dropping $800 on one of these and then going nuts trying to make it work.
Perhaps a poll on people who have had to get there Kahr's repeatedly repaired, and/or after market tuning such as by PK?
If some numbers where presented, it would be a start. It sure sounds like everyone out of the box has problems.
Posted 06 January 2004 - 02:23 PM
1. What/who is PK?
2. What is "the Jungle Walk"?
After reading about all these other problems (firing pin, etc. breaking) I'm really concerned. I'd be more than willing to write down my experiences in more detail if a lawsuit is brought to help us win.
As my friend said, Kahr's motto should be, "Some filing required".
Posted 06 January 2004 - 05:01 PM
Posted 07 January 2004 - 11:03 AM
Posted 07 January 2004 - 06:11 PM
I live 10 minutes from there, and spend a lot of time there also..Here is the explaination of the course. Anyone can try it !.....jw