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M16 Vs Thompson


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#41 Dave Janowski

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Posted 27 November 2003 - 06:32 PM

You go bro!

This a weird post tough I think maybe a comparison like a STEN or a TSMG , or a MP38 and a TSMG, but never the less it still is fun to see everyones opinion!

NOTHING can stop an AK! NOTHING! I have tried and I can not kill it! I can post a video of my friend trying to help me kill my post sample if someone can post it!

Dave
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#42 Grey Crow

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Posted 27 November 2003 - 07:11 PM

Unfortunately I can't ad any advice to the 16 part.
But when it comes to the quality and loss of quality to the Thompson family to me it's a sure sign of loss of true craftsmanship. The goal of the almighty dollar! Even today's super accurate machines are worthless without the skill of a dedicated operator with the desire to produce a quality product that he himself would be proud to place his name on.

Working retail for many years I've seen and sold many product lines that should have spent a little more time on the drafting board before production.

Thompson Example: The older Colt, AO Tommy's were made with machines that required a man to run. When you bought a replacement part you dropped it in and life went on.
Today's computer operated systems with so called superior tolerances require the hand fitting of replacement parts. Things haven't really gotten better, society has just dropped it's standards to accept inferior products.
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#43 The1930sRust

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Posted 27 November 2003 - 07:20 PM

VERN: You think Mighty Mouse could beat up Superman?

DUTCH: What? Are you cracked?

VERN: Why not? I saw the other day he was carrying five elephants in one hand!

DUTCH: You don't know nothing. Mighty Mouse is a cartoon. Superman is a real guy. No way a cartoon could beat up a real guy.

VERN: Yeah. Maybe you're right. Would be a good fight though.

Sorry, too much tryptophan. Oh, forgot. Urban legend.....
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#44 Dave Janowski

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Posted 27 November 2003 - 07:42 PM

AMEN CROW!

A machine is ONLY as smart as its operator!

CNC machines WILL repeat EXACTLY what the operator programs it to do, BUT if he is LAZY as 90% of Americans are today and does not program to the "mean" (a manufacturers term for to the middle) of the tolerances you have basically what Italy manufacturers!

EVERYTHING MUST be hand fitted!, hence no interchangeability!

OLD AMERICAN weapons are the BEST in the world!!!
Hands down!

The THOMPSON is a machinistís nightmare and a collectors dream!

I consider myself a very good BEGINER machinist, and very knowledgeable in mass production! I would give my left pinky to spend 3 weeks in the Colt factory in the early 1920's seeing those guns being produced!

I can picture it: OLD brown and Sharpe Horizontal mills, (just like my number 2) rows and rows of them, each doing one operation , about 10 production pieces at a time what a sight to see, American manufacturing at its best!!!

If my spring factory EVER takes off to be what I hope it will be, I WILL buy a Mori Seiki CNC lathe and a Fadal VMC, THEN I hope to use my FFL/SOT to reproduce a REAL nice Semi Thompson ANYONE would be proud to own!

Guys if you could see the design I have I think you would ALL be in love!

NOW I must just do it!

Dave

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#45 Grey Crow

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Posted 27 November 2003 - 09:24 PM

Thanks Dave,

Yes, not only the set up but constant rechecking to make certain everything is within tolerance.

Quality control!

If it doesn't make specs, it doesn't go out the door.

Its a sad state of affairs we live in. sad.gif

Let me know when your in production!!
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#46 Dave Janowski

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Posted 27 November 2003 - 09:54 PM

Hell it is a way of but ALL of you will know!

Dave
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#47 Zamm

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 03:36 PM

Dave,
Wow, this is getting more exciting every day!
I can just imagine what you would come up with!
keeep on doing!, Zamm
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#48 Jay Baker

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 08:15 PM

John in IN,
In an attempt to answer your question, I took it upon myself to do a side by side comparison of the M16 and TSMG on Thanksgiving Day. dry.gif

The M16 is actually an Oly/Sgw in M4A2 configuration firing 4 30 round mags loaded to 25 each. I did not note the ammunition brand or type. Weapon was suppressed by AWC Raider. huh.gif

The TSMG is an ex movie gun, Savage 1928A1 firing one xx mag, 3 xxx mags, and two L drums. Ammunition is Russian WWII surplus. huh.gif

Of course you realize the reliability test would be skewed by the fact that the suppressor caused so much fouling in the chamber of the M16 that it failed to function after just 80 rounds. The Thompson sailed through over 200 rounds without even a hiccup. In fact, one of the drums was a WH which would not, could not stay in the gun-the magazine latch wouldn't hold it. I held the drum in the 28 and it emptied the damn thing without a single stoppage. laugh.gif

By the way, the target was a pine log 4 foot in length, about a foot in diameter, propped in the upright position. The 5.56MM round went through with little problem. The old .45 kept knocking the tree over. ohmy.gif

Conclusion: Inconclusive-a great deal more testing will have to be done. wink.gif
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#49 full auto 45

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 08:34 PM

Jay I would have to agree. I will go out tomorrow and try the same. I will have a 1928 savage and a WH '28 and my M1 Bridgeport. And for the other side, I'll have a Colt M16. I will have to try I should say, 1000 rounds of each? The impending target is yet to be decided. Maybe a evil pumpkin terrorist? Or that computer that keeps Fu-king with me. I'm just not sure yet. Or it 'tis the season maybe I can find a dreaded yard Santa ornament. Maybe one of my trusty fellow knights will come up with something by noon tomorrow. A report will follow. Who knows, a new video and with my new camera, new pix for the page.
And by the way was that at 25 yards, 50 yards or 100 yards?
cool.gif
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#50 Jay Baker

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 09:18 PM

That'd be 25 yards, Mike. Fire for effect.
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#51 John in IN

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 03:21 PM

Thanks for all of the feedback guys. With machineguns, inconclusive testing requiring more investigation is ALWAYS the best result! wink.gif

Still pondering whether to sell the M16 to get a Thompson, or figure out how to have both. It may have to be one or the other though.

The good thing about having either one is that I am able to stay on track value-wise as they continue to climb in price. I bought mine in 98 for $3400 and see that they are in the $10k range now. blink.gif
BTW, my specific gun is a COLT AR15 Model 614.
So I could sell it, put a little with it and get a Savage or A.O. 1928 and be quite satisfied I think. cool.gif

John in IN
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