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Evilbay Catalog


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#1 Sig

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Posted 28 January 2007 - 08:23 AM

I know the auction says "Believed to be a reprint, condition is too good to be 1920's, paper doesn't seem to be aged, although I don't see any marks to indicate that it is a repro. Selling it as a reprint"

Just in case anyone here is hoping to get it thinking it is possibly something else.
Let's be clear this IS a reprint. The printing on the cover is not even raised.


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#2 Lancer

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Posted 28 January 2007 - 09:43 AM

Does anyone know when & where the reprints of the 1921-1923 catalogs originated from? I don't think I'll ever pony up the dollars that an original will bring so a reprint is the only option for my collection. How much is a reprint worth? My is guess is not more than $20-$25 but I bet this one goes for more.
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#3 dalbert

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Posted 28 January 2007 - 10:04 AM

Lancer,

The reprint currently on Ebay is worth about $6. At least that's what I've seen them sell for at Knob Creek.

Numrich Arms did some excellent reprints of the catalog beginning in the early 1960's. They feature raised lettering, and the duplication of the cover stock is excellent. When SIG and I published the collector guide "Thompson Manuals, Catalogs, and Other Paper Items" in 2005, we had not seen an original at that time, and we wrote a disclaimer about originality on the page that covers the catalog. It is my opinion that original 1923 Catalogs are among the rarest Auto-Ordnance paper items. I acquired an original after publishing the book, and now we can tell the difference. I have not yet seen another original, although I believe 2 other collectors have one each, I just haven't had the opportunity to look at them yet.

The older NAC reprints with the raised lettering still command a premium, and ordinarily sell between $60-$120. I have seen a couple go much higher. I was planning to cover the subject in detail in SIG's and my update to the book, when we get it completed. If there is interest, I will post pictures here of my original, and detail the differences between it, and the excellent Numrich reprints of 40+ years ago.

David Albert
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#4 1921A

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Posted 28 January 2007 - 10:04 AM

Reprints of the 1923 and 1936 catalogs were available from Gun Parts Corp. They still list them on the website. I think the price is $6 each. Quality is good. The 1923 version is not embossed like the original.
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#5 Lancer

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Posted 28 January 2007 - 01:25 PM

David
Thanks for the info. I'd like to see your pics.
I'm looking foward to getting the update. Any idea when you be coming out with it?

1921A
Thanks for the tip. I going to check out Gun Parts, having a cheap reprint is better than having nothing. LOL
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#6 dalbert

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Posted 28 January 2007 - 03:26 PM

Lancer,

Here is a summary of the differences between an original 1923 catalog, and an early Numrich reprint.

Here is a Numrich reprint. This picture was used in our book, and the catalog has rusty staples, and some sun fading along the spine. Before I acquired this catalog, the picture I had of it made it appear that the sun fading might be a cloth binding, but it was not.

One characteristic at a glance that can alert one to a reprint, is that the inside pages, especially when looked at from the edges, appear to have a very faint orange hue, kind of like the color of a manila envelope.

user posted image

Here is a picture of my original 1923 Catalog. This item is stamped in a couple of places with U.S. Patent Office stampings, and has a pasted in library stamp. It is dated August 25, 1925. The cover is in fragile condition, as can be seen.

user posted image

Here is a picture of the pasted in library stamp from the U.S. Patent Office.

user posted image

Here is a picture of the inside title page of the original. The paper and printing are almost identical to the 1921 Auto-Ordnance catalog.

user posted image

If I were asked to point to one characteristic that will positively identify an original versus a reprint, I would point to the page that advertises the C-Drum pouch. What does the C-Drum pouch say on it? If you have the reprint, you can't tell. If you have an original, it is very clearly marked "Mills." Thanks to TD for this observation.

Reprint catalog C-Drum pouch picture:

user posted image

Original catalog C-Drum pouch picture: (Keep in mind, these pictures are reduced in quality for the web.)

user posted image

Here are some closeups of the picture from the catalog of the soldier in position with the Military Model Thompson.

Reprint catalog:

user posted image

Original catalog:

user posted image

The details are much more clear on the page that advertises the use of the Thompson on airplanes. It is difficult to discern the airplane ceiling in the reprint catalog, but it is clear in the original.

Reprint catalog pictures:

user posted image

Original catalog pictures:

user posted image

I hope this helps. There are many more details I could point to, but I'll wait to put them into the 2nd edition of the book. I don't have an ETA for book completion at this time, as other projects on my plate have reduced the amount of time I have been able to dedicate to this effort lately.

David Albert
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#7 Lancer

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Posted 28 January 2007 - 04:39 PM

David
Thank you for your efforts here in pointing out the differences between the original and reprint. Very informative & interesting.
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#8 adlake

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Posted 29 January 2007 - 08:52 AM

dalbert

Thank you again for the information, again you have giving me a intrested I never thought of. Not like I need anymore. ohmy.gif I am looking forward to the Part II of this book. hopefully there more written on the subjects in spotting the diffrences between repo's and orginals. as I dont know if I can afford an orginal. tongue.gif Sure like the info!

Thanks again Man-adlake
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#9 dalbert

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Posted 31 January 2007 - 08:46 PM

adlake,

Yes, when we complete the second edition of the Thompson paper book, it will have a lot more text, and will describe each item in greater detail from a collector and historical standpoint. We already have more than double the amount of material contained in the first edition. It's pretty amazing how much Thompson paper is out there, and the history it represents. Fun stuff!

David Albert
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