Box Magazine Variations

[deerslayer]

Looking over some of the 30 round magazines the other day and found a few variations in the punctuation on the seymour (four variations) and crosby (3 variations) magazines. Thought I'd pass this along. We really do need a web site with pictures of all the different drums and mags.

 

http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/4386526/aview/100_3874.JPG

 

http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/4386526/aview/100_3882.JPG

 

[Deathompson]

Makes me feel good when my sig rings true.

[shadycon]

box markings? what is a 6 pointed star with what looks like a J in the center mean? also a circle with what looks like Lc in the center? the markings are on a seymore 30rd stick. thanks

[TSMG28]

Dan,

 

I have been looking at the different Seymour variations for a couple years now. I believed there were three distinct variations, the first, second and fourth of the ones you show. I have not seen the third one before, but now I have to go look at mine again.

 

I have discussed this subject with Tracie on several occasions. He believes there are two versions of the Seymour XXX mags - one with punctuation and one without. His position is that the one with comma and without periods is simply dies where the periods have broken off and not a specific die change. He would likely say the same about the one with the periods but without the comma. Since I have not personally seen the one without the period among more than a hundred I have viewed, Tracie may be correct. Unless the letter spacing is different, "broken" punctuation may indeed be the culprit.

 

I had not seen the differences in the Crosby's before, but I have to admit I haven't looked that closely either. Tracie's comments would apply to the no punctuation Crosby, but not where the period is placed differently. That appears to be a different die.

 

I now have to look at all of my Crosby's too. No rest for the wicked....

 

 

 

Shadycon,

 

The stampings you describe are Israeli. They mean that you mags spent some time with the Israeli military (lend-lease post WWII and/or forwarded by the British). You didn't mention the finish on your mags, but they may also have been parkerized during their life there. I have seen Israeli markings mostly on parkerized mags, but also on a few samples that are still blued.

 

 

[shadycon]

TSMG;Thanks for the info. The finish on these seems original, dull blueish-black.

[deerslayer]

I'll check very carefully the spacings and stuff. Certianly broken periods could be possible. I wonder in a factory that was making thousands of these, how many dies would be stamping these at any one time. Would there be several production lines? Or just one line with the stamp replaced periodically as it wore out. How was a stamp made? Were they cast, or methodically hand ground?

 

I remember we talked about this on the board a couple years ago, then I recently ran into these seymours and crosbys in one batch and got me thinking again.

Dan

 

[dalbert]

We really do need a web site with pictures of all the different drums and mags.

 

We can have one here...all I need are the pictures. If we create a good photo index, I could even make it a special website reference feature. For now, I'm going to add a link to this thread in the reference thread index pinned at the top of the page.

 

Thanks!

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

 

[deerslayer]

Here are some more details. I didn't have time to try and take new photographs, but took measurements and looked carefully at placements.

 

Crosbys first.

 

Measuring from the "U" to the "5" or the greatest distance of the letters produced 2.2595 for the top no punctuation magazine, 2.23465 for the middle magazine, and 2.2620 for the bottom magazine. The top and bottom magazines are the closest in size of marking, so that is what I concentrated on for finding if the period could have broken off the stamp and the bottom magazine is then the same stamping as the top.

 

Looking at the bottom CO with the bigger "C" or half oval around it I found that if you go straight down from the "T" in CARTRIDGE that for the bottom magazine, it is a perfect straight line down to the curved "half oval" edge of the CO stamping. But on the top magazine with no punctuation, a straight line down from the T shows the curved "half oval" to be to the left.

 

This is my observation. I make no pretense as knowing how many stamping that the company might have went through, but it appears that all three of these magazines were from different runs.

 

Seymours.

 

Top two...Looking at the placement of the "C" in PRODUCTS (in the top line) and the "N" in CONN (in the bottom line), I see that the "C" is more to the right of being directly above the "N" in the no punctuation magazine, and more closely straight up an down in the "one comma" magazine.

 

Then in the bottom two magazines, I found that taking a caliper to the space between the "R" and "C" in SEYMOUR AND CONN showed a difference (though I forgot to write these down).

 

Again, I would venture that there were four different stamps used on these.

 

 

 

 

Dave, I'll send you photos of what I've got and hopefully with a call to action, we can get some of the rare pre ww2 drums photographed and posted.

Dan

Edited November 4, 2008 by deerslayer

[dalbert]

Dan,

 

I think an online box magazine and drum reference guide would be excellent for the website. This will be a fairly significant undertaking, in terms of gathering examples. I have a few examples I can begin to post myself, along with your pictures already posted here.

 

I think Roger Herbst (TSMG28) would be an excellent resource for this project...Tracie would also have most of the examples needed, and I will inquire with him to see if he may want to participate.

 

So, this is a call out to anyone who wants to send pictures of their drums and magazines. You can send them to me at the e-mail address below, and I will start to compile them in a pinned post ASAP. (I will credit whomever submits the photos with a screen name below the photo...i.e. "Deerslayer Collection,", or however you'd prefer.) If someone would like to take a stab at an organizational outline for the magazine and drum reference page, please post it here, or send it to me.

 

Picture Preferences:

 

1. I prefer example magazines and drums to have their various markings filled in with white china marker, to enable easy recognition.

 

2. For drums, please photograph both sides, and if possible, include close-ups of the markings.

 

This will have to be a work in progress for a while...as it will take a lot of work to get it completed.

 

I am currently working on a summary of the features of the original British Home Guard case, and the new repro by Deerslayer, with photos provided by Bridgeport28A1 and Deerslayer. I intend to include this material in the Thompson reproduction item pinned post.

 

Thanks!

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

[drdave2441]

I never noticed ANY differences in the 30 rounders. That is because I do not know what to look for. This is all very interesting to me. I will go through all my magazines. A reference book would be great for box and drum magazines. I would be one of the first ones to buy one. An autographed one of course.