Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Magazine Trouble, Kahr 27


  • Please log in to reply
4 replies to this topic

#1 TAB

TAB

    Member

  • Regular Group
  • 89 posts

Posted 22 July 2003 - 12:27 PM

Before I read of the mag catch modification, I'd fitted a couple xx mags to an M1, had taken as little as possible out, but when the mags sometimes dropped while firing, I took a wee bit more. I recently got a 27, that needs to go to PK, but in the meantime, for what little summer we get, I've been playing with it. Both guns were at the range a week ago, and no stoppages, shoot about the same, even roughly the same POI. But Sunday morning the one magazine started activating the hold open on the 27, while still charged. Bit random, sometimes get ten rounds off no problem, other times the first shot and the bolt would stay back. It's not a stoppge, as you can work the bolt and chamber the next round fine. But this isn't a bolt action, so i'd rather not do that.

I don't know what the problem is, I went over the magazines last night, they all fit about the same, but the hole on the one that is troublesome is 5/100 ths larger than on the three mags that are working. How is it though that it trips the hold open? I haven't a clue. I tried a different spring in the magazine, but no cure. This came up elsewhere on the old board, sorry to revive it.
  • 0

#2 jimf5

jimf5

    New Member

  • Regular Group
  • 9 posts

Posted 22 July 2003 - 07:59 PM

I had the same problem with my WH last weekc, Could not get the bolt back while out shooting. Took it home and was able to work it loose after a while and took it down for inspection. What i found was the small spring for the bolt lock had come out of the small pocket that it is supposed to sit in. This as the first time I had fired the gun since I took it in trade so I don't know if it was out when I got it or worked loose while I was fireing it.

If the spring gets loose it will get jammed and will hold the bolt lock open and not in any pattern. If this is a commen problem would some of the long time members please respond as to a fix .

JIMF%
  • 0

#3 TAB

TAB

    Member

  • Regular Group
  • 89 posts

Posted 22 July 2003 - 11:53 PM

Jim, thank you, I will take a look at that spring. I'm not qualified to judge, but it didn't seem very well constrained. I do know that on the rear sight on the 27, I put an extra spring in behind the sight plunger, the factory spring was so weak the sight ladder was just flopping around.
  • 0

#4 Whiskey Brother

Whiskey Brother

    Regular Member

  • Regular Group
  • 136 posts

Posted 25 July 2003 - 11:34 PM

I thought I'd respond to this, as I had the same experience when I first got mine. After around 500 rounds, suddenly the magazine would drop out of the gun while firing. After a little thought and examination, I replaced the magazine release spring with a new one, and it's worked fine ever since. (I also thought it wouldn't hurt to pick up some extras and store them in the butt trap.)

As for the bolt locking back, I don't think it's the magazine. The magazine follower has a little lever on that activates the bolt hold open lever on the last shot. If your magazine still had cartridges in it, then I don't see how it can be the problem. A carefull disassembly and examination of the bolt hold open lever, called the trip, is in order. Look for wear on the trip. Thats the little deeley that locks the bolt back when the follower hits it. It is one of the parts that pivots on one of the pins in the pivot plate. Remember not to take out the pivot plate with the frame on the receiver, as this will teach you new cuss words. You will also want to check the springs in the frame, I believe one of them (I can't remember off the top of my head) applys a little force to the trip to keep it in the down position. In fact, that is probably the problem. Without a little spring tension the trip could fly up from recoil motion, and lock your bolt back even though you still have cartridges left in the magazine.

(If you want to see how the whole gizmo works, take a look at a empty box magazine (or "stick" if you prefer biggrin.gif ) and look at the back of the follower. The Follower is the metal thing on top of the spring. Press the follower down. See that little tab of metal sticking out that disappears into the magazine body? That's the bolt hold open lever on the magazine, on the last shot, it transfers its movement to the trip. Look in the magazine well right in front of the trigger. You should be able to see a little lever sticking out, at the height of the magazine follower on the last shot. It pivots like a seesaw on one of the pins in the pivot plate to transfer it's motion to another little gizmo, (lifter, I believe, but I'm going from memory here...) that pops up to hit the corrosponding notch on the bolt, and presto, the bolt locks back. The drum does not have a mechanism to hit the trip, one of the main design flaws I see in the Semi-autos. A gunsmith could make you something to do that, or you have to get a separate little tool called a "third hand" to stuff up the magazine well to activate the trip. Well, I hope I sounded halfway coherent there, and I'm confident that you will find a bad lifter spring as your culprit. Good Luck!)
  • 0

#5 TAB

TAB

    Member

  • Regular Group
  • 89 posts

Posted 28 July 2003 - 10:28 AM

Thanks Whiskey-yes I was concerned as the catch on the rear of the follower cannot reach the hold open trip with rounds in the magazine. The rib could if the receiver was removed, due to the elongation of the hole necessary to fit the SA. Would require the receiver and frame to separate some on recoil, but Kahr has certainly allowed for that in their generous fitting of the twain.

Comparing the 27 and my M1 the pawl springs were both well seated and tension about the same-meaningless as i don't have a means of measuring them accurately. I've put 100s of rounds through the magazines in the M1 without a problem, and at first they functioned fine in the 27, then started this hold-open activation with the mags still partially charged.

I thought like you that the recoil combined with a sloppy fit between frame and receiver was tripping the hold open and that maybe the spring was weak, but then again- I swapped frames between the 27 and M1 and still had the problem. Yet the M1 never does it with its frame. If the pawl spring were weak, I would expect to see the M1 have the same problem activating the hold open....

Anyway, I solved the problem. Am sending the gun off to PK. biggrin.gif




  • 0