Arthur Fliegenheimer

Several reasons to confirm #15025 was shipped without any Cutts Compensator. The non factory boss threading on the original barrel, GH's correct description of #15025 including the "A" stamping and the Lyman sight in meters, and your own March 2011 SAR article on Swedish Manuals where you show their 1939-40 Colt TSMG order specified no Cutts. You also stated in the 2019 "Amateur's Guide" that #15025 "may have originally been prepared for sale to a foreign government or customer, perhaps initially part of the Swedish contract." Does this other 1928A Colt have the identical hideous muzzle boss threads? Doubtful. The vendor identity is public knowledge as GH states it was Ohio Ordnance Bob Landies who did the reactivation post 1970. Do you have a copy of GH's final two volume serial numbers? Your next TSMG publication can confirm the identity of the manufacturer of the "H" stamped barrels. G.E. Hudak Inland Arms Company Austin, Texas. See photo.

On 4/8/2021 at 10:33 PM, M17ap said You mentioned Hudak back in 2021. Now you solved the mystery of the origin of the "H" marked barrel. Outsanding!

Tom, Yes, GH does specify the MODEL 1928 with a 1921A barrel. His deviation from the FOIA is that it sold in 1940 not 1939. What source was GH using that gave near identical FOIA info? At some point after receiving #15025 the Government entity owner sent it back to the Maguire owned AOC for the Type II Cutts installation? Or some time between 1940 and 1972 the Cutts was installed? So who is responsible for the Cutts fitting to the original Colt 1921A barrel before or after #15025 was dewatted. Arizona Class Three dealer Tom Stewart provided you with the photos of #15025 for your 2008 SAR article and that you also used in your "Amateur's Guide", yes? He stated he was able to get the original factory barrel, then fitted with the Type II Cutts, from the seller. Did he tell you why he, or the seller, removed the Type II Cutts to show the mangled muzzle boss threading for the pic to be included in your article. There isn't a complete photo of the original barrel in the publications as only the muzzle with Type II is depicted. Whomever removed the barrel from the receiver replaced it with the repro "H" barrel and West Hurley Cutts Compensator? Did Numrich rewat #15025 with the "H" barrel and his Cutts? Unfortunately all the retro work done on #15025 precludes determining how the threads differ on a 1921A barrel and a 1932 barrel when a Type II Cutts was installed by AOC/Fenn. Back to Square 1...

Colt TSMG #15025 featured in a SAR article and T.D.'s An Amateur's Guide for the Colt's Thompson Submachine Gun." The photo shows the once dewated #15025 original barrel with partially unscrewed Type II Cutts. Unfortunately the pin grove isn't visible. According to GH this was sold in 1940 as a 1921A Model. Doesn't resemble the threads on the 1932 barrel made for the Type II Cutts. Is this a 1921A "H" stamped barrel threaded for the Type II Cutts?

Bob, Can you differentiate the sequence of a barrel boss first threaded and the pin grove/cove drilled after Cutts Type II Comp was installed and a barrel boss with existing ring sight pin grove/cove that was threaded over to accept Type II Comp? If the difference is obvious then this may be the way to identify a 1932 barrel on a Colt TSMG with Type II Cutts. Of course removing the pin is not an ideal solution when there is a chance of flattening the head.

"Cutts Compensator fitted to Thompson Gun barrel at factory ---(barrel extra)....$25.00" 1936 AOC Catalog. Cleveland PD was already committed to the today equivalent price of $580. Another $466 for the today equivalent of $20 does seem extravagant. Perhaps the department was evaluating the used condition of #147 when it came to adding the price of a new barrel, yet the AOC advertising proved persuasive to Colt TSMG owners and perspective buyers to pay AOC to substitutes the Cutts for the rIng sight..

Never suggested the customer who returned their Colt to AOC was obligated to spend $20 for the new barrel made exclusively for the Type II Cutts. But AOC installed many more Type II Cutts on in stock Colt TSMG and previously sold Colt TSMG returned for the Cutts. After 1932 AOC was making the decision for customers on which Type Cutts to install. Which method of Cutts installation was the better design and required less time? Machining down the 1921 muzzle boss to eliminate the rIng sight pin grove/cove to accomodate the Type I design - OR - threading the muzzle boss on a 1921A barrel or new 1932 barrel for the Type II Cutts? Did Fenn ever respond to Chuck's inquiry with a picture or description of this "clever device"? Is it your belief Fenn threaded the muzzle of the new 1932 barrel and fitted the Cutts Type II with the new barrel on the receiver after swapping out the 1921A barrel? When did AOC hit on the same practical and safe method of barrel removal that Doug Richardson manufactured? See photo below. Not disputing Jack Meador's Colt #147 has the original 1921A matching serial number barrel. As to the "perfect" alignment, judging by the above picture , the barrel line is between the receiver witness line and the scribe line. If this is not the case when viewing the Colt in person then the photo isn't a true representation. Why the scribe unless barrel was off and on for Type II Cutts sight alignment where the scribe marked an initial position where the sight was too far to the left when barrel was torqued down? No visible additional scribe mark on Colt 1921A #103 receiver. Doesn't seem this was a Colt practice on the earliest serial numbers. See photos below.

AOC's difficulty in removing 1921A barrels without damaging them was a thing in 1926 not by 1936 when #147 was sent back to AOC/Fenn for the Cutts Type II fitting. With the availability of 1932 manufactured barrels, Fenn must have been routinely removing 1921A barrels to install the new barrels made for the Cutts Type II Comp. It is not a certainty that #147 barrel wasn't removed when the Cutts Type II was installed on it's 1921A barrel. Your pics of Colt Chopper (Jack Meador) #147 barrel/receiver witness marks are within the same alignment as new 1932 barrels fitted with Type II Cutts Compensators . The Fenn installer's guide mark is a new wrinkle as well. The Cleveland PD wanted the brand new Type II Cutts fitted to the by then (1936) fairly used 1921A barrel because the $20 added cost of the 1932 barrel was prohibitive? Surely there was no consideration in maintaining the original barrel because of the obscure matching serial number.

Which of these is not like the others? Colt Chopper posted his collection of barrels back in 2020. The bottom one, which he doesn't guarantee being an original 1921A barrel, is threaded for the Cutts Type II. Outside of the thicker collar it is identical to the barrel B picture that Doug Richardson found in the National Archives. We do know the collar thickness varies on original 1921A barrels. The answer is...there is no identifying feature that betrays the 1932 barrel from a 1921A barrel (aside from the early barrels with serial numbers) regardless of the 10 year separation of manufacturing. But how did the machinists deal with the pin cove left from the pressed on ring sight when threading the boss for the Cutts Type II? Did they thread over it? How would that affect the position of the Cutts on the barrel for the new pin? Or would that be addressed by ignoring the existing cove and drilling a second cove? Has anyone encountered two coves on a barrel with Type II Cutts?

Hill has this barrel thread gauge (see below) in TUTB that is described as a tool enabling assemblers to match up the witness mark on the barrel to align with witness mark on receiver. Ostensibly this would eliminate anything but near perfect alignments using factory barrels. The question is whether this gauge is of the Colt era TSMG or WWII Savage/AOC era. But if this was not available or used before WWII why not if it is near foolproof simple method? The above A barrel had the original ring sight pin cove machined down before the new threading. Is the new cove for Cutts Type I pin visible on the underside of the barrel as is seen on barrel B?

Bob, Outstanding contribution to the discussion of new barrels manufactured for the Cutts Comp Type II to be installed on the Colt TSMG . The cove for the Cutts pin can be seen on the thread of Barrel B. The comparison demonstrates how a 1921A barrel where the pressed on ring sight is replaced with a Cutts Comp Type I could never be retrofitted to accept the Type II.

The Jarhead second from left appears to have a Colt Navy with the horizontal forearm and offset Enfield sling swivel.

In your first pic the rear "G" was ambiguous as TD agreed it looked like an "S." Your above pic clarifies the letter stamps as both being Gs.

Yes. The more pronounced mark in front of cove is a "G" but the more faded "S" at rear of cove demystifies the manufacturer. Perhaps the "G" is the mark of whomever did the knurling on knob?

Isn't that a Savage "S" stamp in the cove? Looks like the Savage "S" stamp outside cove on known Savage actuator.

He passed away in February, 2023. The photo is from 1978. Anyone here have a Randall Knife with Bowles Scrimshaw handle?

1969 "I Dream of Jeannie" episode. Now this a Thompson lamp!

Bob, Looking forward to how this is resolved. Now I don't have to send Saeilo/Kahr a link to the immortal and infamous REPLICA Thread. That would be cruel and unusual punishment.

Bob, Why is this attempt by Saelio anymore valid than than their cease and desist order in 2009 as discussed in this thread

Seems a second picture taken during the May 10, 1922 demonstration at 1:30 PM (as approximated by G.H.), with the TSMG held closer to John Thompson's shoulder showing his right eye, managed to replicate this magical angle and afternoon light as the markings are most definitely highlighted. Photo from Tracie Hill TUTB.

According to Tracie Hill's Volume I (as shown in the above post) the Marines attempted to install 1st pattern Cutts on their Colt TSMGs with poor results. U.S.M.C. Richard Cutts blueprint didn't foresee the problems associated with fitting the comp to the barrel boss. AOC replaced the bulged barrels and compensators when returned to them free of charge. Doesn't specify if the this meant the Marines sent their receivers along with the barrels. Opens up the prospect of AOC attaching the Cutts with the barrel off the receivers. Richard Maclean (Small Arms Review contributing writer) wrote in American Gunsmith that the witness lines on the 15,000 Colt TSMG receivers and barrels were used for initially installing the barrels and then removing them for "bluing and sight installation. "

According to the above letter from AOC to Colonel Cutts the Fenn device solved the problem of avoiding damage to barrels during the process of proper attachment of the 1st pattern Compensator. If your labor-saving solution was how Fenn cut the threads to John T. Thompson's strict standards then AOC wouldn't be complaining to Cutts that the Fenn method was still time consuming and costly. Maybe the "clever device" was strictly about removing the barrel and resembled the Doug Richardson tools pictured.

May 10, 1922 publicity photo of John T. Thompson showing off his smg complete with highlighted markings. If it was good enough for the Brigadier...

Tom, The 2016 thread below discussed the Fenn Company and their involvement with Cutts Compensators. Doesn't appear to be any new information in Hill's 2022 Volume 1 on how Fenn Manufacturing Company used their "device" for attaching Cutts Compensators to barrels. Don't know as of this date whether Chuck's inquiry to Fenn resulted in any response. Here is the letter as shown in Hill's Volume I that was previously uploaded to the 2016 thread. Still no resolution on whether the Cutts was installed with barrel on or off Colt receiver.

Tom, Taking off an original Colt/Remington barrel with Cutts Compensator that was in sight alignment would no doubt be reinstalled matching up to the previous setting using the tools shown in the video from another thread. Many Colt TSMGs did miss out on the JHB stamp. Whomever was doing the final inspection on those Colts no doubt adhered to the same standards as Barrett. The variable associated with the barrels witness mark and the receiver witness mark lining up is when the Cutts type II was installed. The thread below concerned the FENN MANUFACTURING COMPANY method of Cutts installation. Was the new Cutts fitted with the new(?) barrel on the receiver or off the receiver? Cutts pins that are pristine would indicate any adjustments to align the sights were done during the time the barrel and Cutts type II were joined together. If the witness marks is a skosh off but the Cutts is perfectly aligned with the Lyman front sight would the artisans recrank the barrel forward or backward to get perfect alignment and then fine tune the Cutts before drilling the hole and grove in barrel to accommodate the pin?