TSMG28

Counrtyboy77, All of the Colt-era numbered drums, both C and L, were made by John’s Machine and Stamping Works Company in Cleveland, and finished and assembled by Colt’s.

Grease Gunner, I am changing my opinion about the finish on your drum. I inspected two early numbered L drums that are NIB, and their finish is essentially identical to that of yours in the pics. Please take a look at the edge of the body under where the cover overlaps. If that area is blued, smooth, and not grit blasted, it is very likely that your drum is 100% original. Thank you for sharing it with us. Roger

Grease Gunner, Your drum has correctly been confirmed as a Colt-era C drum. It is hard to confirm condition with pics, but it does appear the drum has been refinished. The tells are the finish filling all of the markings, especially the serial numbers, and the uniformity of the overall finish. As noted by others, the insides appear to have been polished to some degree. The rotor appears to be in nice shape Original finish nice Colt C drums have gone for $7000-8000, but I am guessing yours will be less due to the refinish. Actual value will depend on the buyer and how much they want a Colt-era C drum. Good luck.

forindooruseonly, Your drums were all made by Auto-Ordnance when they were owned by Numrich in West Hurley, NY. The one that is actually marked West Hurley, is referred to as an XL drum because it holds 38-39 rounds (not 40 as the name implies). Numrich repurposed and updated the drum Japanese dummy gun company MGC made for their Thompsons. The other two are true L drums that Numrich made starting in 1988. You did not say whether your box mags are 20 or 30 rounds. I am guessing 30, since you say there are a number of Seymour’s. The SWCO mag is made by Sparks-Withington Company. All are from WWII. Your gun is from the same group as some I inspected a few months ago in Britain. As Tom mentioned, it is from the early guns A-O sold directly to the British in WWII. It appears to have all of the characteristics of those guns. Very nice gun! Major congrats!

The knurling on your safety is similar to another early Savage that I inspected recently. The upward diamond with a flattened top is one of the patterns that Savage was apparently experimenting with before they settled on the downward diamond pattern. Of course, eventually they stopped knurling the controls altogether. Having the flattened upward diamond pattern on the same gun with a downward diamond pattern is probably original if it is an early Savage gun.

Forindooruseonly, I will gladly assist with identifying any of your magazines once you dig them out. You can post the pictures here or send them to me directly, whichever you prefer. Definitely take advantage of Tom’s assistance with your FOIA request. The results will be enlightening. Hope to see you next year at one of the show and shoots. You and your history will both be well received. Roger

When Savage started their production, they were experimenting with different styles of knurling on the Selector and Safety. Yes, they did make a couple different diamonds-out style, if I recall, before settling on the diamonds in style later in production. Of course, they eventually dropped the knurling altogether. Tom Davis covers this in one of his books. Also, some smooth WWII controls were modified later with various kinds of knurling, so you can encounter a wide variety of different designs. If not connected to a gun, it sometimes makes it difficult to sort out.

forindooruseonly, The drum appears to be a West Hurley L drum, but more pics would be needed to confirm that. We will need a FOIA to confirm this is a Savage Commercial, but it appears to have all of those characteristics. The recoil spring guide does appear to have a center hole based on the edge radius on the back. Congrats on a very special Savage Thompson.

Hey Folks, A friend is looking for a nice display stand that will hold a replica Thompson with drum magazine. He is buying the gun for a friend as a gift, and would like to add a nice stand for its horizontal display. Of course, he waited 'til the last minute, but if any of you know where he can buy one quickly, please post here or PM me. Thank You! Roger

Robbo, I recovered some tools and the spring material from Merle, and will eventually try to repair springs on drums. That will not occur until sometime next year at the soonest, as I still have a number of .22 conversion kits to manufacture. I do not plan to repair any modern drums initially, preferring to focus on Colt era or WWII drums. The price for modern drums makes repairing those impractical. Roger

As Got Uzi said, it is a grab bag. No way of knowing without opening. Odds favor Seymour, as they made over 12 million XXX mags, and were manufacturing them much longer than the other makers. Second best guess is Crosby, as they made over 5 million (second largest number manufactured). Those two manufacturers are the most often seen XXX mags that are NIW, whether original wrap or rewrap. The asking price of $150 is ridiculous in the current market. Five to ten years from now, perhaps not.

Yes. The original Colt-era drums made by John’s Machine and Stamping Works were all numbered, as were the ones made by Numrich in the early 1990’s. Kahr numbered both sides of their early C drums, starting with their release in 2007. However, that did not last long (around 1100 drums), then they only numbered one side, and later neither side. The reproduction C drums from Taiwan have never been numbered.

The remaining barrel inserts are proving to be a challenge. Most will not fit into a gun, and those that do fit have alignment problems with the bolts. I am working to identify what needs to be changed to solve both problems. Apologies to those on the waiting list for the delays, but I am still trying to get as many kits completed as I can. Given the challenges, I cannot yet provide an anticipated completion date for any of the second list kits. Roger

RANGERRON72, Sig is correct. The only way I know to properly rivet a new pad in place is to disassemble the key completely. You may be able to find a replacement winding key that is correct for the drum. It will have a light grit-blasted finish like the rest of the drum exterior. I don't think the current Kahr winding keys are grit blasted, so that would stand out against the drum cover. Your call. If you want to improve your current lockup, I suggest finding a different screw head with vertical edges rather than the beveled edges of the existing screw head. The locking pad (screw head) should be approximately 0.310" diameter, and approximately 0.100" thick. The latch hole it inserts into should be 1/8" diameter, though that may have been modified by whoever added the current screw. Also, I recommend finding a nut that is slightly thinner to allow more vertical movement of the latch mechanism. IMHO, improving the current makeshift repair is probably preferable to disassembling the entire key, and then having three replacement rivets. The pad for the latch would likely need to be fabricated before being riveted in place, as I have never seen any for sale. You can then keep your eyes open for a correct replacement winding key. You never know when one will pop up. Any of the WWII winding keys that were grit blasted would be close if you cannot find a Worcester key. FWIW

ZK, The short answer is that any of the drums produced during WWII would be appropriate for mating with a standard 1928A1. The contract details are in my book shown above, which would allow you to pick what best tweaks your interest/focus. TSMGguy, The detailed magazine FAQ that existed previously did not port properly when the board moved to new software. That said, it did not include the detail available in books. Roger

Time to dig into your old stash of drums. I am looking for a specific drum that Kahr manufactured after the Assault Weapons Ban expired (~20 years ago). These are not the drums with Export Only stamped on the back of the drum. They look like a typical L drum with a solid hub, except they have funky numbers in the winding instructions arc below the winding key on the front. Both the 9 and 11 use a strange font and size. Here is a pic of what I am looking for: If you have one of these drums, I would like to either buy it or trade for another drum. You can PM me or post in this thread if you have one of these drums you are willing to "share". Thanks for looking. Roger

That is a third generation (latest) Kahr drum. The spot welding is definitely Kahr, and the front faceplate places it as 3rd gen. Roger

The polyurethane that PK uses is a custom fit job. In the past, he has asked for you to send him your 1921 guide so that he can guarantee the proper fit/function. As far as I know, he is the only source for these.

I agree with TD’s assessment across the board. It does appear to have been refinished. Probably made circa 1929-1930.

Bauer, Is it possible to get more pics of both sides of the gun? The wood appears to be walnut and/or beech. Is that correct? The only brass guns I have seen in the past were the Turkish standard size ones made in Cyoress in the 1960’s. I published an article about those in Small Arms Review. This gun does not appear to have any of those features, so for now I doubt it is related. Roger

A few people are encountering failure-to-fire/light firing pin strikes with the lighter Merle springs sent with the kits. I tested those springs successfully in several guns, but every gun responds to these kits differently. If you get FTFire or light FP strikes, try a standard .45ACP spring. It should fire each round, but will likely be too strong to allow the bolt to extract that round and feed another. As listed in the instructions, clip ~1/4 inch at a time off that spring until the gun runs reliably. Feel free to reach out to me concerning this or other issues. Roger

Ryo, The best I can offer is hopefully yes. You are on my second list, waiting on some parts. Once those parts are completed, I will match the bolts to existing barrels. If I can find or engineer enough matches, I will be able to supply kits to the names remaining on my second list. As I have mentioned before, I have found that everything needs to be custom fit and matched. At this point, matching bolts and barrels is the key determining factor. Stay tuned. I will contact everyone via Email as things progress.

Pstidan, Merle made all of the design changes to the Ciener .22 adapter, and did all of the engineering. As far as I know, all of the components of all of the kits were actually made or subcontracted by Merle. He needed box and drum mags for the kit, and contacted Black Dog to work with him. His first box mag was a modified Black Dog AR-15 mag. He also came up with the changes necessary to the PPS50 drum to be used with the Thompson. As I understand, PK is the one who came up with the way to cut the slot for the .45 ejector, but I know that Merle is the person who cut the slot in my original barrel. He created special jigs to allow him to make the cuts on his mill. I recovered that jig. Black Dog used his box mag example to design their own box mag, but they never offered the modified PPS50 drum or mounting adapter. As part of Merle’s work with them, Black Dog also sold his early kits. Merle later sold the kits directly. He handled everything for the later kits. All of the parts in the current kits came from Merle’s basement.

Mike, The barrel insert does not appear to be rotated 30 degrees. The .45 ejector is at the back of the top groove in the barrel. Rotating the insert counterclockwise allows the .45 ejector to line up with the lower groove so that the barrel can be moved forward into the chamber. Once the insert clears the .45 ejector, you rotate it back so that the .22 feed ramp is at the top (bottom of the receiver).

Frank, You are missing the grip mount retainer for the receiver vise. Doug ran out of the retainers before he ran out of vises. Since mohawk64 made these as recently as 2022, I would guess his pricing would be the standard. Back then, the receiver vise with grip mount retainer was $220, and the universal wrench was $250. Both were including shipping. I would guess $450-$500 shipped is a reasonable price range today considering the missing component, but YMMV. I don't know how the run-up in prices these past two years would affect the final costs today. The original cost for the vise without retainer was $145, and the wrench was $95, but that was a long time ago. The retainer cost $65 originally. BTW, those grip mount retainers are not hard to make, but a potential buyer should first contact mohawk64 to see if he could sell them one. FWIW