TSMG28

Above are the front and back covers of my book. It is 196 pages, and contains 640 pictures of all of the magazines made or modified for the Thompson Submachine Gun from 1917 through 2021. The subtitle is how I refer to the book - Feeding The Dragon. It is currently a paperback offering, but I hope to make a hard cover version available soon, if that matters to you. Information from The Ultimate Thompson Book and American Thunder III is included, with permission from Tracie and Frank, so that a complete story exists in one place. However, I welcome any and all additional information on the subject, including examples and/or pics if you have them. Chapters are: 1 - Designing the Drum Magazine 2 - Colt-Era Drum Magazines 3 - WWII Drum Magazines 4 - Making a Thompson Drum Magazine 5 - Post-WWII and Modern Drum Magazines 6 - Drum Magazine Packaging 7 - Designing the Box Magazine 8 - Colt-Era Box Magazines 9 - WWII Box Magazines 10 - Post-WWII and Modern Box Magazines 11 - Box Magazine Packaging, Logistics, and Refinish In addition to the history about the various magazines, it includes descriptions and pictures of various unique features. My goal is to help collectors differentiate one magazine from another. For those of you who have seen my magazine display, this book is an amplification of that. My publisher has been a bit slow getting my books to me to sell, but I expect to have some in hand by May 7th. I will be selling the paperback book directly for $40, plus $5 shipping if you need it shipped. I will gladly autograph any books before I ship them. I will have copies available at the TATA and TCA Show & Shoots. To avoid filling up the board PM system, if you want a copy mailed to you, contact me via Email at roger.herbst@att.net. The book is also available on Amazon for $49.99, and I will be glad to sign those copies in person if we meet up. Hard cover versions will likely be priced at $59.99 on Amazon, once I figure all of that out. Amazon is probably the best option for most international buyers, because it eliminates the high cost of international shipping and import/export issues. Roger Herbst

Thanks for that input, Countryboy77. I am not looking to use a 10mm mag. I agree with you that it there is little or no modification from a standard .45ACP version. I just want these for my personal collection. I am a Thompson magazine geek, and just finished a book detailing all of the magazines for the gun. So few of these officially modified magazines exist that it is hard to locate one for my collection. I figured it doesnt hurt to ask the Thompson collective. ?

There are no pictures. The one person who has seen the drum told me it just had 10mm stamped over top of the original 45 ACP. That observation happened decades ago, so I have no idea where any drums are or how many might exist.

I posted this on the Semi board, since the mags are for semi guns, but thought I would also post here. I realize there are not many of these around, but I would like to add one to my magazine display/collection. Would anyone be interested in selling one of their 10mm box magazines? There is also supposedly a 10mm marked drum mag as well, but I know of only one person who has seen one. Thanks. Roger

I realize there are not many of these around, but I would like to add one to my magazine display/collection. Would anyone be interested in selling one of their 10mm box magazines? There is also supposedly a 10mm marked drum mag as well, but I know of only one person who has seen one. Thanks. Roger

The site referenced by Uncle Dudley is selling the latest iteration of these drums, which are not marked Crosby. Only the first run of these drums from years ago has the Crosby name on them. I think that is what Countryboy77 is looking for.

Gijive is correct. Seymour is the only WWII manufacturer who used the dimpled floorplates, and only on their later 30-round mags. MGC chose to copy the design. I do not know if MGC adopted it intentionally, or simply copied a Seymour mag. The military mag drawing that shows the dimpled floorplate design change dates it as 12 October 1942. Because it was an alternative solution, it was not adopted by the other manufacturers. Seymour also manufactured their mags much later in WWII than any of the other companies.

Stevens was owned by Savage and supplied parts for the Savage guns, both original and spares. You may also find some Stevens parts in AO guns. Yes, the actuator has a London proof mark.

Bob, I agree that Doug's tools were not always perfect in real-world applications. I suspect his heavy-duty wrench "may" have been one such tool, though I have no experience with it myself. I was not referring to it in my comments, but rather his Barrel Vise which is shown on a page below from his catalog (sorry for the poor image quality, but that was the way it shows in his catalog). Richardson Tools.pdf It is designed to provide maximum clamping power and support to the barrel so that you can break the stub loose in the manner you mentioned. On the same page he also shows a simple grip mount puller that can be used to hold the grip mount back when necessary. Personally, I like your wood block method, but the puller works too. Just putting the information out for consideration.

Bob, Your experience is why Doug created his Barrel Vise tool. He told me it is actually stronger than his heavy duty wrench, because it solidly clamps the barrel, solving the problem you were experiencing. Your machining trick was great, but beyond many folks that want to remove a receiver stub. Roger

Could indeed be a new, stiff spring. Also, the keys for your Numrich drums, both L and XL, use a different kind of key, which is easier to remove.

I am desperately trying to finish a book on this subject. It will be a collectors guide to all of the Thompson magazines from 1919 to 2021. Should be available sometime this spring or early summer. It builds on the information in Ultimate and AT3, plus new research and a lot more pics. In the meantime, yes, please post pics and we can help you sort things out.

iRONM4N, Since you are in Europe, you might be able to track down a United Defense Model 42 Submachine Gun mag. The are marked UNITED DEFENSE SUPPLY CORP. on the front along with S.P.C. At the bottom, which is Seymour Products Company. They look like a small Thompson mag and already have the T-rail and mag catch hole in place. They hold 25 rounds of 9mm. With a properly modified 9mm bolt, they should fit and function perfectly. I have purchased these mags in Belgium in the past, but with all of the new EU magazine laws, I do not know what is available these days. If these are not available, a modified Suomi would be my first choice.

The Stanley drums are decent drums and a unique part of the Thompson magazine history. We do not have a number on how many were made, but I would guess far fewer than the approximately 5000 numbered L drums. I suspect that the smaller number of Stanley drums is more due to issues at Stanley and between Stanley and Auto-Ordnance, rather than the short timeframe. Johns Machine and Stamping Works cranked out a lot of the numbered drums in a relatively short timeframe. As to value, their relative scarcity should bump the value, but most Colt gun owners seem to prefer the numbered drums, or the first generation Worcester (aka Standard New York) drums for a lower cost alternative. I would think $2k-4k is a reasonable range, but so few are sold that it is hard to tell. I stupidly passed on a beautiful one a couple years ago because I already had one in my collection. As with many things, mostly the price depends on how badly someone wants one and who else is competing. The one Darren has been trying to sell, and he started at a lot higher price last year, has been noticeably refinished, which is probably why it has not sold. Most collectors want a drum that has not been refinished. FWIW

The 28A1 appears to be a completely fabricated gun. The trigger frame is a reproduction, not WWII. The receiver serial number was also applied much later by someone who does not understand Thompson markings. As noted, this receiver would not have an S serial number, and the font is all wrong. The double-struck WB looks strange but could be legitimate, as may be the AO45, but if Bridgeport AO did rework this gun, why would they have put a Savage serial number on it? I have no idea what serial number is in the trigger frame, and the rear sight is missing most of the sight mechanism (ladder only). I have no experience with Charlie Erb guns, but he may have simply cobbled this one together because he could. The Colt trigger frame also seems odd to me. The markings are the later style, which I would not expect to see on a serial number this early. We know that the shift in markings of the trigger frame is inconsistent based on serial number, but the FIRE/SAFE and FULL AUTO/SINGLE are both later period markings. That said, the NC State Bureau of Investigation provenance is interesting, especially considering the guns condition. FWIW

The latest keys will work, but not the earlier ones from Kahr and West Hurley. Make sure the the winding hey has a pad on the back side of the spring latch instead of a hole. The keys with the hole are for the earlier post-WWII drums, which have a solid hub instead of hollow like the Bridgeport drum you have. The ones from Sarco are recent and look like they will work. The third hand device is intended for the 1927-A1 guns to enable the bolt to be locked open to allow the drum to be removed. When you find one, it should work fine for you. It is not drum dependent.

That is not a Thompson reinforcing band. It might work but is not the proper shape.

As noted by TSMGguy, WWII drums cover a range of prices. In general, most are $500 +/- $100, depending on condition and bidding frenzy. Nice Crosby first generation drums with the silver rotor can add $50-100 to average prices. On rare occasions, they hit $800-$1000, typically at auction houses, but I do not consider that price point valid for the majority of WWII drums. If you are talking about the very rare versions, like Charles Fischer or W.P.S. CO, it is anyone's guess. So few are actually sold that there is no way to establish a price baseline. I would guess that if you find one of those (unlikely), the price could easily reach $2,500-$3,500, but that is just a SWAG. FWIW

With that tab gone, the bolt closes on an empty chamber when the mag is done just like with a drum. If the user preferred that for some reason, that could be why the tab was removed. Your choice whether you replace it. For interest sake, what manufacturer is the mag, and is the V at the top or bottom?

Annihilator, What is the significance of the number under the proof mark symbol? It appears that all of the different proof houses have space for a number there.

Jim, Nope. Still waiting. They have probably been shut down a lot this month. Hopefully a New Years present.

StrangeRanger, Yes, the French ordered a prototype Thompson in .351 WSL because they used that caliber in WWI with their modified Winchester 1907 rifles. They never ordered any guns, and I have never seen a copy of any tests that they performed with that Thompson, so I dont know why they did not pursue it. Supposedly, that Thompson is still stored in a French museum or armory, but hasnt been seen for some time. I had been hoping to travel to France in 2020 to try and track it down, but COVID put an end to that. Dont know when I will get another chance. Looking like 2023 or later at this point.

Bob, There are actually three different bullet profiles used in the Remington-Thompson rounds. Attached is a pic that shows the other two profiles. These rounds are unfortunately few and far between. Roger

Before the Russian parts kits, and even after, there were a lot of Thompsons in the UK. These guns were originally deactivated according to the older standard, which left the trigger frame fully operational. I observed 30-40 guns in one establishment, and nearly all had the original SN either completely ground off and replaced or crossed out with an additional number added. Most were then also refinished. They were basically force matching the frame to the receiver for potential buyers. Others have also done this with surplus trigger frames. I suspect that is what occurred with your trigger frame. As TD noted, pictures will help clarify what you have, but it is not unusual. It is unlikely that an armorer did thus, as the military, especially during WWII, did not seem to pay attention to matching the parts.

Given the degree of damage to the outside of the body, you are talking $300 tops, and probably closer to $200. As ppgcowboy notes, it is essentially a shooter drum. However, for those that are more historical, at least it dates to WWII. YMMV