TSMG28

Dan, What is the measurement of the difference? Is it the 0.10 inch difference typical of semi guns?

Since Nick did not get the drums from Numrich, my guess is that someone else took drums that had been used in PPS50s and modified them to be used with a Thompson and something else.

The notch that is important for Auto-Ordnance is the round one in the front. That locks up with their adapter for either semi- or full-auto guns. The reason for the differing notches on the back is that these magazines were designed to be used with a number of different adapters, I believe most made by Bingham. For example, there is a Bingham adapter that fits a Ruger 10-22 that allows these stick mags to be used in that gun. Like their .22 drum, Auto-Ordnance simply adopted an existing solution and adapted it for their needs. Concerning the drums above, I agree that the one with the round hole is designed to work in a Thompson. I have no idea what gun the other modification is designed to work with. Nick, since you bought all of the Numrich .22 stock, it may have been a development model for getting the hole placed correctly for the production version. Just a guess. Both drums have obviously been inserted into guns more than a few times. Neither drum is one of their production models. The production models have a Thompson bullet logo stamped on them and a spring steel clip spot-welded on the back to hold the loading tool for the drum. Roger

I agree with all of the comments above. Its probably not worth trying to get fixed due to known spring problems, but you can try. I have #0348, and it will not wind beyond 9 clicks. However, it did dump 100 rounds in one pull of the trigger on one occasion. Im not trying that again, but it did work even with the lower number of clicks. The new Taiwan C-drums are a much better bet at a reasonable cost. Even if Merle was still doing repairs, he would have charged you more for the repairs than a new drum costs. Roger

If anyone on the board owns or knows the whereabouts of Colt's Model of 1921A serial number 140, please PM me. This gun was owned by a friend of mine in the 1960's-1970's, and I would like to find where it is today. It was not live when my friend owned it, and I believe it was sold to someone in the Canton, Ohio, area in the late 70's, though this is not certain. Thanks in advance for your assistance in this research. Roger

Garandcollector, Thanks for the additional pics. With the closer look, I agree with Richard that the felt looks newer, though it is well done. There is also one piece missing. That changes the value to $250-300. Still appears to be a nice box. Apologies for the error. Roger

Rimcrew, I suggest you post pics of the drum so that we may be able to determine whether it is parked or not. As Mike Hammer indicates, if truly parked, that reduces its value.

The L-drum is a modern Taiwan repro. It has the Thompson name ground off, so it is one of the first batch of these drums. A few folks might like that, but to most it is just a repro shooter. Value probably $125-150. The Brit mag carrier is in nice shape, and the felt looks to be original. The maker, SWS LTD., is not commonly found, so I would put the value at $350-400.

Actually, the drums are blued inside and out. The reason the outside looks different is because it was grit blasted before the finish was applied. There should be a telltale line around the outside where the cover overlaps the body. This should be smooth, as the cover and body were assembled when the grit blasting was done.

This is definitely one of the Taiwan repro drums. It is slightly collectible because it is one of the first batch with the Thompson name on the faceplate, but it is still nothing more than a modern repro shooter. Asking price may be a little high given the surface rust, but that is up to the buyer.

Gearchecker, Auto-Ordnance is now making new mags that are already configured with the modified hole placement. I assume those are the ones that would come with a new 27-A1 today. They are pricey and unmarked. As noted above, before A-O started to make these new mags, they simply modified original full auto mags, though most mags I have seen have been modified by Bubba to varying degrees of reliability. If you have a semi-auto, I suggest investigating modification or replacement of your mag catch so that your gun can use original WWII and earlier magazines. Millions were made by various manufacturers, and once your catch is modified, you could use your original mags instead of your modified mags. It would also avoid someone "modifying" more quality WWII mags to use with your gun. Your gun, so your call, but I recommend considering the adjustment. Dan Block can help you with it if you are not comfortable with making the change yourself. This is one of the standard "tweaks" that is often recommended for semi guns (see the Semi Forum). FWIW

Klocker, Welcome to the board. Nice gun. You should be proud to own both it and the M1. Great that you can still actually shoot these things in Europe, which is becoming more rare by the day. Are you in Luxembourg or Belgium? I think the collector laws are a bit different between the two countries. A number of thoughts in addition to what Tracie has already pointed out. 1. It appears that the ejector plate may be a replacement piece of metal that was attached to the threaded ejector itself. The shape looks a little irregular compared to an original. This might account for the dimple instead of rivet. 2. The barrel appears to be a smooth barrel that someone cut the fins into. It may be an original USGI barrel or an aftermarket. Not only is the fin count wrong, but the closeup of the Belgian marking appears to show the the fins were machined and refinished at some time. 3. The grip mount projection toward the barrel should actually be pressing against one of the fins, but there appears to be a gap between the mount and barrel. This could either be the barrel out of spec or something with the grip mount. 4. The pin in the comp appears to be a replacement. It should be rounded on each end. The flattened end may be from removal and reinstallation, which would have been necessary if the barrel was removed for modification or replacement, or a different pin was used. 5. As Tracie noted, the serial number on the bottom of the trigger frame is a forced match. It appears that someone ground off the original AO number and replaced it with the Savage number. However, they didn't realize that they should also replace the AO with an S for Savage as stamped on the receiver. I have seen this kind of modification on a number of Thompsons in the UK, but with the Belgian marks, this may also have been done in Belgium. The ones in the UK typically have the entire number ground off including the AO or S. 6. The vertical foregrip appears to be a nicely done aftermarket with a U.S. swivel attached to the right side like was done by the British and the Commonwealth cousins. Most early swivel additions by the Brits used the Enfield swivel rather that the U.S. version, so that also suggests a later addition. 7. The drum is indeed a United Specialties drum (or more specifically, United Air Cleaner Company, a division of United Specialties) which was made for Auto-Ordnance. Yours appears to be the fifth version with the outlined U on the back. The cover/front may be V5 or V4. The only real difference is the letter height of the WIND TO 9 OR 11 CLICKS. V4 is 0.180 inch high lettering, while V5 is 0.220 inch high lettering. Either would be correct, as we have seen NIB examples where the V4 and V5 components are intermixed. The drum should shoot very well if you have ever tried it. I have been fortunate enough to visit the Bulge area several times in recent years. Beautiful area, and a great place to learn a lot about the battle. Lots of great museums to visit, and nearly every town has one or more Sherman tanks on display either in the square or at an entry to the town, or both. Enjoy your toys!! Roger

Doug, Yes, the West Hurley drums were "made" by Numrich Arms back in the 90's. The drums were actually manufactured by Elmsford Tool, & Die Company of Westcester, NY. Numrich is now again subcontracting the manufacture of C-drums, this time to Taiwan, and they are marked GPC (Gun Parts Corp.). Normally, when you see Thompson items referred to as West Hurley, they are talking about Numrich Arms of West Hurley, NY, during the 60's through 90's before they sold the Auto-Ordnance rights to Kahr Arms.

As far as I know, the Thompson Technical volumes are no longer available from Doug. However, you should be able to get his "Thompson Submachine Gun Workshop Manual". You want the current Third Edition. It includes a lot of information about working on the guns, including a lot of spec information. It also focuses on Doug's receivers and tools, if you are fortunate enough to have access to either. I believe Doug has arranged for someone else in CA to send the books out for him, but I am not certain of that. Since his web site is still offline, I do not know how to reach out to him. As noted above, "reconbob" may be able to help.

Inertord nailed it. Definitely a West Hurley C-drum, and as he noted, without the retainer clip. Also agree on amazement about Taiwan drum sale on GB. And the drum is even dented. I wonder if the sale actually went through. For the buyers sake, I hope not.

The 40 round mag was just two 20s welded together on their face. See the pic Frank included above. You still had to change mags at the end of 20 by flipping them around. The 40 round UD42 mag worked the same way. We have seen a number of battle pics showing that soldiers had taped two or more mags together, but many of those pics show the 30-round mags being used. The cobbled-together very long 50 round mag used the same concept that Crosby used to make the 30.

Matt, What you have there is one of the prototype 30-round mags that Crosby made up from two 20-round Crosby mags for consideration of the Armored Force Board in Fort Knox. The design was tested on 6 December 1941 and recommended for adoption. The witness slots were not adopted, but the 30-round design was, and subsequently made in the millions by four different manufacturers, including Crosby, who gave the government the rights to the design. See American Thunder III, pages 239-240, and TUTB, pages 605-606, for more details. If you ever want to sell this, I am very interested. Roger

An earlier thread put the current price in the $800 range, but I agree that may be a bit high. It all depends on how important it is to your collection. They do not come up for sale very often, especially in nice condition FWIW

Terry's phone number is 817-396-0211. His current Email is jterrywilliams@icloud.com. In case anyone is interested, he has a 1928 NAVY for sale, #5235. The gun came from the Tennessee Highway Patrol. He says it has a Savage buttstock, but is otherwise in nice condition, and firm at $38,000.

Most of the drums on the Autoweapons site are not correct, and they don't even list the prices, which is a red flag to me. The C-drum is correct, but has obviously been refinished over some significant pitting. Both L-drums 643 and 948 have Worcester rotors in them, so they are not as they left the factory. The L-drums listed as 2nd gen are actually 3rd gen "Colt"/1st gen Worcester. The first one listed has what appears to be either a John's or Stanley rotor (which actually would be correct in either of the numbered drums). The WH C-drum is correctly identified, but there is also something off about it. The are no serial numbers shown, and I have never seen a WH C-drum without the serial number information. Not sure what that means, but with the other errors, even this horrendously overpriced drum is suspect. What a mess! I can see why Colt Chopper doesn't like this site. FWIW...

Richard, You are correct about the guns former owner. Note the French sling swivel on the buttstock. Nice!

DFisch, My best guess on the 301 stamped on the key is that it was used by some police/sheriff office to link the drum to a gun, or just as an inventory code. It was definitely added after production, and is not connected to the earlier numbered drums.

Light guy, Yes, that is a Taiwan drum. And yes, replacing the spring on an existing rotor is a complicated process that needs a lot of time and some special tools. However, it is relatively easy to replace the entire rotor assembly. Check out pages 587-590 of The Ultimate Thompson Book for the procedure.

Bob, Yes, it had a Stevens late 1928 replacement barrel with WWII Type 4 comp and sight somehow glued in place. May be loctite, but we have no idea when it was installed. Nate plans to get a Colt profile replacement barrel from PK. I dont know whether PK has repro type 1 comps as well.

Lightguy, I guess you need to clarify what you are looking for. The winding key does have a spring steel part of the latch, but as John mentioned, you need to make certain what key is being used. The Taiwan key should be fine, but the key from any WH or Kahr solid shaft drum will not. Both X drums used a solid rotor shaft, so no luck there in either case. So.....because you have a Bridgeport drum, either the rotor or winding key from a Taiwan repro should get you back in business.