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rpbcps

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rpbcps last won the day on January 19

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About rpbcps

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    UK member of The American Thompson Association
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    Thompson, Lugers, history in general, tintinophile, and good wine.

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  1. Yep, finned barrels, Lyman adjustable sights with New York address on receiver. Identical to early Savage Model of 1928's, except they had no compensators. If I recall correctly, I'm away from home at the moment so unable to refer to relevent text in Tom's book, AOC agreed to include compensator at a much reduced price to the British with their Model of 1928's, after that order was fulfilled.
  2. What you were told is incorrect, well partly, no doubt a very small number of Colts were already in the UK, or were in the early orders. However, AOC remaining stock of the original Colt manufactured guns had already been purchased by France & Sweden. The British were busy haggling on price. The story was the British noticed that the compensators were listed as an extra, if my memory serves me correctly for $25 each. So the British placed an order for Model of 1928's without compensators to keep costs down. I don't have time to type out the full story. But, there is definitive evidence that some Savage 1928A's were purchased and delivered to Britain, (and used by British forces) in Tom's book.
  3. Indeed there were.. You can find many photos of British soldiers and Home Guard with Savage Model of 1928s, with no compensators, Model of 1928A's. These were shipped to the UK in one of the early orders made by Britain in 1940 if I recall correctly. Full story can be found in Tom Davis's book 'Great Britain - The Tommy Gun Story', with more photos of them.
  4. Living on the wrong side of the Atlantic when it comes to being a Thompson Enthusiast, my Thompsons are all deactivated. However my goal many years ago in fact decades ago was to have examples of each Model and various modifications, but still not there. I have my 3 digit serial number Model of 1921, and three Model of 1928's, each with differences in markings. Early serial number NY address with patent dates, NY address with Patent numbers, which I have just acquired. Finally an example with the Bridgeport address. Then I have three 1928A1's. First with Lyman adjustable sight, finned barrel and receiver marked 'Tommy Gun'. Next has finned barrel, but with battle sight. Final example has smooth barrel and battle sight.
  5. How many Thompson 1928A1 (and Model of 1928s, as the serial numbers ran consecutively), were manufactured by Savage? I read, probably in Franks book, that the smooth barrels replaced their finned predecessors on Savage 1928A1’s from approximately serial number S-500,000; which was the same approximate serial number that the plain ‘L’ sight was introduced to Savage 1928A1 production.
  6. I am not sure if you can pass a strap behind the sewn-on bit, I have never seen any in the 'flesh' yet. I am curious about that myself. In the karkeeweb.com link is saying they came with: "Stores Ref. A1/AA 1502 Pouch, magazine, C.M.T., strap, web, 1-in. x 30-in."
  7. That is what Karkeeweb.com said, but sounds very impractical to me, even if worn under a para smock, which was another suggestion. 🤔
  8. After posting the information about the CMT pouch yesterday, a pair came up for sale here in the UK. Manufactured by 'Princess Silk Shade' in 1942, a pair of nice unissued pouches. It still puzzles everyone how these were supposed to be carried, having no belt attachments. One idea is that they were designed to be worn above the Basic / Bren pouches, and secured to the cross-straps, which was also attached to the basic / Bren pouches below them.
  9. Although, I am yet to find reference to them in a handbook, (or Pamphlet, as the British Army called them), there is also another set of pouches that is sometimes mentioned, but I am yet to find an example. The website Karkee.co.uk has this to say about the pouches in question: "Of all the Pouches authorised this is the most puzzling. The nomenclature in List of Changes (L.of C.) §B5789 is clear, “C.M.T.” being the Carbine, Machine, Thompson. http://www.karkeeweb.com/patterns/1937/LoC/attached/html/LoC_B5789.html but no method of wearing is given. In form, it is a mini Basic pouch, but with a flap lid in place of the more normal box lid. A 3-bar buckle, on a reduction weave chape, is fitted at the top, just like the Basic pouch. However, no belt hooks were provided, nor are there stitching guides to indicate an incompletely finished product. The only other information was the Strap, Web, 1-in. x 30-in. that was also notified in the L. of C.. It is too well-made to be a temporary, or supply Carrier, to be thrown away after it reaches its destination - unless it needed to be sturdily made for use as a throw-away by Airborne troops…?" Pictures and further information can be found at: http://www.karkeeweb.com/patterns/1937/1937_associated_equipment_attached.html Has anyone on the forum came across any British Carbine, Machine, Thompson, (C.M.T.) pouches?
  10. Bringing this back to the top... and as I asked in August 2020... "are there any more out there?" Wondering if anyone else has stumbled upon other examples of the foldout stoppages information sheet in a copy of their NY address 1940 handbook?
  11. Dazza, see above topic for information on inspection markings. See below some 'Lend lease notes', I made for a 1928A1 in my collection, S- 162650: "President Roosevelt eventually came up with the idea of "lend lease", which despite some opposition from isolationist Republicans in Congress, was passed in both the congress and senate, and President Roosevelt signed the Lend Lease bill into law on March 11, 1941. This permitted the U.S. to "sell, transfer title to, exchange, lease, lend, or otherwise dispose of, to any such government, (whose defence the President deems vital to the defence of the United States), any defence article." In April, this policy was extended to China, and in October to the Soviet Union. Roosevelt approved US$1 billion in Lend Lease aid to Britain at the end of October 1941. This resulted in US Model of 1928 A1s’ being supplied to Britain, Canada Russia and China, amongst others, under the Lend Lease program. A provision of the Lend Lease program stated the US Government would take over all foreign contracts with US arms manufacturers. Both Savage and the AOC were keen to fulfil as many of the foreign contracts as possible, prior to the enactment of Lend Lease. They were both concerned that the US Government would question the high profit margin AOC was making on the Thompson. Ironically enough, AOC could charge the US Government more than they had been charging the British, who had negotiated the price down to $130 per unit. The price charged to the US Government was $225.00 minus 10%, which calculates to $202.50. Greasing and packing added an additional $2.50 to the cost, adding up to $205.00 per weapon. The price was eventually reduced through negotiation and the lowering of manufacturing costs. During this period, the Model of 1928 Thompson underwent a few minor changes to the ejector and the compensator. It then had a major designation change in March of 1941, with the passage of the US Lend-Lease Act, which ended British ‘cash and carry’ orders for the Thompson. ‘Tommy gun’ 162650 was part of an order placed by Britain during the initial ‘cash and carry’ period of ‘MODEL OF 1928’ Thompsons. This order of 50,000 ‘MODEL OF 1928’ guns was placed just before the introduction of the U.S. Lend Lease Program in March 1941. Savage was still using an early roll stamp for the ‘MODEL OF 1928’ markings at the time. However, under the Lend Lease Act, the US government assumed ownership of the guns that were supplied to foreign armed forces, and the Act stated that the guns had to be marked as U.S. Property. So, the "US" and "A1" were retrospectively added by hand stamping them to the 42,000 guns, (including 162659), from this order.
  12. Dazza, Excellent addition to your collection. A few answers to your questions: U.S. before Model 1928 and A1 after it , indicates lend lease, (U.S. Model of 1928A1 on Savage made Thompsons). The British 'Cash and carry' , (pre lend lease), guns were marked Model of 1928, and all of those were manufactured by Savage. As countryboy says above, the trigger frame serial number IS the one under the stock, if it has been removed, the seller has misrepresented what he was selling, if he said it was matching. WB is the initials Colonel Waldemar Broberg who served as AIO of the Springfield District from 1 July 1941 until 30 June 1942. From my Notes, so not my work, probaly info from Franks book: "The AOC Bridgeport Plant only manufactured this model from August 1941 until October 1942, with their last Model 1928A1 being completed on 15th October that year. Government documents show that the Bridgeport Plant manufactured a total of 323,900 Model of 1928A1’s during this period, on average 5784 left the assembly line per week. Throughout the war, the Thompson underwent design changes that would make it faster and cheaper to produce. The first change eliminated the finely machined Lyman rear sight. This modification was the result of an Ordnance Committee meeting held in December of 1941. At this meeting, it was suggested that a much simpler ‘L’ type battle sight replace the complicated Lyman adjustable rear sight. It was agreed the new sight was better suited for a military application and it helped expedite production. So, from early 1942, 1928A1s’ were produced with the Lyman fixed aperture rear ‘L’ sight". You can do the calculations from that, to give an idea when yours left the assembly lines. Great piece, congratualtions.
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