OCM

I should add, # 7387 is now returned to the Porter County Sheriff, where it was loaned out to the Lake County Jail in 34 to help protect Mr. Dillinger. As far as I know, it's a 1921 AC. OCM

Progression of Thompson # 7387. After Dillinger's arrest in Tucson, Jan 25, 1934, he was flown to Chicago, then locked up in the " escape proof " Lake County Jail, Crown Point, Indiana. After a couple months he decided to leave and broke out of jail using the fake wooded pistol. March 3, 1934. On the way out, he grabbed a couple Thompsons, # 7387 & # 6444. # 7387 was on loan to the jail from the the Sheriff of Porter County, next county over. 28 days later, March 31, 1934, he was found living in a Apartment in St Paul with girlfriend ( moll ) Billie Frechette. When the coppers knocked on the door, it was answered with a couple blasts from # 7387. Off they went in a 1933 Essex Terraplane 8, which I used to own. A week later, April 7, 1934, Dillinger spends two days at the family farm in Mooresville, Indiana. Why there enjoying a picnic, he has his picture taken with # 7387 & the wooden pistol used to escape the Lake County Jail. 23 days later, April 23, 1934, Dillinger is on vacation way up in Northern Wisconsin , staying at the Little Bohemia Lodge, Mercer, Wisconsin. Couple freinds are with him, names like Baby Face Nelson. The FBI pulls a raid on the lodge and a huge machine gun battle begins. Dillinger grabs # 7387 and hauls out the back door, FBI miss him, he heads back to Chicago in a stolen car. Then takes a rest June 30, 1934, Dillinger robs the South Bend, Indiana bank, tons of gun fire, ( probably ) using # 7387 and escapes. July 22, 1934, Dillinger is stopped for good, in Chicago, with the Lady in Red, Anna Sage. Immediately after Dillinger is killed, she has # 7387 tossed in Lake Michigan. Some kids swimming, find the gun and it's turned over to the FBI. # 7387 is finally returned back home where this all began with Dillinger first borrowing it, the Lake County Jail I'm including photo journal of the Thompson's history here. All these are from 1934 with the exception of historian Butch Smith holding it a couple years ago. Lake County Jail, St Paul apartments, Family gathering, Lake Michigan find. I received a bunch of photos from retired law officers, Ern Hudson & Butch Smith this morning, showing the various Dillinger Thompsons they have " interviewed " through the years. They were kind enough to say OK show these to the group. Sandy

Lots & lots of interesting stuff on this subject. Guns don't match, #s don't match, books don't match, lists don't match, physically the guns don't match, guns are missing, claims are made..... One of you gentlemen, may have a $$$ Dillinger gun? Got FBI Larry Wack on it, Ern Hudson & Butch Smith ( retired law enforcement) on it ( they've seen , interviewed & shot about any gangster Thompson out there ) Helmer, when his computer is running and me. One thing for sure, Dillinger is holding # 7387 that he took at his escape from the Crown Point jail , on March 3rd, 1934. This photo was taken April 7, 1934 at an open family picnic at the family farm in Moorseville, IN. 20,000 police looking for him & he's right there at home for two days, taking pictures with his Thompson & the fake wood pistol he used to escape with, at the side of the farm at about 2 in the afternoon. #7387 stayed with him, for another 4 months, till he was nailed in front of the Biograph in Chicago . The Lady in Red had her son pitch it in Lake Michigan, with vests & stuff. Kids found it while wading, called the cops, Feds took it, finally returned to Porter County, Indiana folks & it's there if you want to see it. Call first I guess . as/B4 ( a Dillinger signature ) OCM

Thanks jpw43, got the photo in files- Forgot about the porch shot. yea, looks like the lid to a 50 gallon drum compared to the L drum. OCM

You bet- They had slot machines next to the Death Car there, that you played, to try and get this tolken. Bet they made more then 150k off them for years. When I was allowed to document the car, the first thing I noticed was all this change laying around inside the car, dimes, quarters etc. I asked the guy that was in charge of the car, what's up with this. He said people would throw mainly dimes in the car like a wishing well or something. Every so often they would gather the coins. ???? Wishing for what I thought. Yes, I think I got a tolken for 10 sawbucks. Got lucky. OCM

No serial number, Darryl, this was taken by a friend of mine in Texas, many years ago. Found it cleaning files. This gun was used at the ambush of the dysfuntional couple. Good luck on the sales brochure, a very rare item, especially since you are lucky enough to own a Colt Monitor. Sandy

Thanks- Just doing some research, I was hoping I missed something here and it was a C drum. Compared to my 28N, it looked the same too. Damn. Onward.

Is this a L or C drum on the Thompson in the middle without the butt stock ? ( third gun in from the right ) Or can you tell from this ? 1934 Tucson. Thanks- OCM

Darryl- Found this in files last week, picture of Frank Hamer's Colt Monitor. OCM

Thanks- Can anyone tell if that's a C drum on the third Thompson from the left, one with no butt stock ? Also, how about the Colt pistols, something that says one is a 45 and other a 38 Super. I see any difference. Appreciate the detective work. Sandy

Tucson Thompsons, Dunrite Vests, Lebman converted 351s to full auto, 45, 38 Super and the 38 found in gang member Pierpont's sock and arresting officers, Jan, 1934. Third Thompson in is probably ( 99.99999% ) the Racine Thompson , 1921/28 Navy overstamp # 3363 picked up at the bank robbery with no rear stock, brought to the bank that way by the Racine PD. Anybody want to step up and ID the lever action guns, go for it- I have no idea. OCM

Thanks. Sandy

Is there anyway to isolate the Colt Thompson serial numbers, pre 1934 ? Thanks- Sandy OCM

Little update here: I've got my buddy Larry Wack helping on this now, I was stalled . Lot of my reference stuff is in DC now. Larry is retired FBI and knows his stuff, so we are joined forces for this. Larry has a wonderful web site, Faded Glory: Dusty Roads of an FBI Era. Right now looking at the mystery 4th Thompson at the Tucson arrest. It has dissapeared. Files keep coming up three with #s.??

Found the FBI files on the Lima, Ohio escape & # 6099. There does not appear to be any Thompson taken ( # 6099 ) ??? The bandits( Dillinger & co) took two pistols, a 38 Police Special nickel plated # 55761-N stamped on the side " property of Allen County Sheriff" and a 38 Colt Detective Special, blued steel, 2" barrel, # 410172-A-1 . This gun belonged to the Sheriff that was killed, other to Deputy Sheriff Sharpe So it appears the Dillinger Thompson from Lima, #6099 is out of the loop. Wonder where Gordon got that information ? Addendium: he probably got the info from the LIMA PD, the FBI reports no Thompson, but #6099 is alive and well in Lima. Opps.

Getting a little closer, a handwritten letter from the Captain of the Tucson Police Dept, Frank Eyman, indicating he found $134,000, handcuffs, black jack, 2 Colt 45s and 2- Machine guns , from the Dilllinger gang member, Harry Pierpont. No #s on the Thompsons. Also the money bag from the Racine bank robbery where the 1928 Navy Overstamp was taken. A little background on the three Thompsons taken & some cool pictures.

Have had some interesting comments about the location of the serial number, that was scratched out. Local police ( Des Moines ) were called out to Dexter, Iowa to help out. One photo has a officer with a Thompson.

The Capone collectors/ authors types responded to me with not so favaroble reviews on this too. Interesting tho- Sandy

Tucson Thompsons recovered from the Dillinger gang- Little bit of a mystery here, the photo of the arresting officers ( 1934) show 4 Thompsons on display with the vests, Winchester 07s, 45 autos. The list of items from the police report only lists 3 Thompsons. # 5878, # 8946- Both on display at the Tucson PD headquarters , currently I believe. # 3363 the Racine gun returned to Racine. ???? on the 4th. Looking for the Lima, Ohio Thompson # 6099 in the files as per David's posting.

David, thanks will help a LOT. Going to attempt to list all, where they came from with a short bio, serial #, model and where they ened up i.e. where are they now. Maybe old recovery photos. ( Helmer just sent one this morning of the ones found in Lake Michigan ) Going to have to stab at the model from the photos, hope to get some help here on that, they all look like 21 ACs to me. We still got the Tuscon Thompsons to ID, like to run down the Little Bo ones ( got photos ), Lake Michigan one. March 3, 1934 Dillinger breaks out of the Crown Point escape-proof jail using a fake wooded pistol, Takes two Thompsons , # 7387 & # 6444. March 6, 1934 the Dillinger gang robs the Security National Bank in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Three of the gang, including Baby Face Nelson, carried Thompsons March 31, 1934 Dillinger is caught in St Paul and shoots a Thompson through a bedroom door and escapes with his girlfriend, using a 1933 Essex Terraplane 8 that I used to own ( had to throw in a kudo ) . Probably # 7387 or #6444 ( may have left one there ?- have to find St Paul records ) Dillinger shot in the knee April 7, 1934 Dillinger is pictured at the family farm in Mooresville with # 7387 or # 6444 and the wooden gun used to escape Crown Point. April 13, 1934 Dillinger raids the Warsaw, Indiana police station using a Thompson, no Thompsons taken April 23, 1934 Dillinger, Baby Face Nelson and others have a shoot-out at the Little Bohemia Lodge in Mercer, Wis. Left behind Thompsonss # 6315 & # 6141 June 30, 1934 Dillinger robs the South Bend, Indiana bank, while gang member Homer Van Meter stands out front with a Thompson. We have an actual photo of Van Meter out front of the bank with the Thompson while Dillinger is inside robbing it July 22. 1934 Dillinger killed in Chicago. The lady that owned the apartment where he was staying ( lady in red ) had her some take the Thompson , a bullet-proof vest, Colt 38 Super, some magazines & dump them in Lake Michigan. All was recovered. Now to start- help ? OCM

Work in progress: October 14, 1933 Dillinger enters the Auburn , Indiana Police station and relieves the station of one Thompson October 20, 1933 Dillinger raids the Peru, Indiana Police station of two Thompsons. October 23, 1933 Dillinger gang robs the Greencastle, Indiana bank, gang member Charles Makley displays a Thompson , assume from the above raids Racine bank, Nov 20, see above. ( New Years eve 1933/1934 in Daytona Beach, Dillinger was firing a Thompson into the ocean in celebration of the new year.) There are 4 Thompsons to start 1934. January 15, 1934 Dillinger robs the East Chicago bank banishing a Thompson and possibly kills ( under debate ) officer William Patrick O'Malley January 25, 1934, Dillinger gang is caught in Tucson, AZ with 4 Thompsons in thier luggage. One is the Racine 1928N # 3363. Two possibly three are still with the Tucson PD. Working on models & serial numbers.

Like to compile a list of all know Thompsons in the possession of John Dillinger, serial #s, model, where they came from and where they are now. I usually leaned on Rick Mattix that stored this info. I can give the historical background on the guns, usually, but would be nice to know all the other stuff. Anyone that has interest in this and info, jump right in. I'll be digging it up as I can- The Racine Thompson, 1928 Navy Overstamp, #3363. Dillinger gang robbed the Racine, Wis. bank, November 20, 1933. The local police had # 3363 in inventory ( only one Thompson ) . As Sergeant Wilbur Hansen entered the bank with the Thompson, rear stock off, he was met by gang member Charles Makley with a Colt 45 pistol and shot. Makley grabbed the Thompson . They left the scene. At the gangs arrest in Tucson Az. Jan, 25, 1934 #3363 is recovered and is returned to the Racine police dept. I believe it was retired in 1973.

Curl- Shenandoah, Iowa home of the Everly Brothers....................about it . Nice little Iowa town. ( think Music Man )

There is a thread going on, on the main forum, about the BAR that Clyde Barrow left in the Dexter, Iowa battle. Good photos by dan aka deerslayer. Getting a lot of interest in the historical gangster group. I think it's under Colt Sighting. Gun is in the Crime lab, we think in Des Moines. Have some friends heading to Sallisaw to see the Floyd Thompson, going to try and stop enroute to see the Barrow BAR- These guys are retired law enforcement so hopefully can get in. OCM

Wow, thanks for showing this, Dan. Ernie Hudson, the retired Under Sheriff here ( my buddy ) called yesterday to say he actually went to polygraph ( lie detector ) certification school in Des Moines, some 20 + years ago. Had some friends at the time with the crime lab there, both retired. He still has contact with one of them. He said he'd give one of them a call as see if he can get in to see the BAR on the way to see Floyd's Thompson. Retirement is so much fun ! Good stuff Dan, thanks for sharing, you got some historians all fired up . Marvin Feller had brought up the story of a kid finding a BAR after the raid. He was there. Sandy OCM