OCM

OCM, Please tell us about the XX Thompson mag in the photo of Terraplane items. David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com Good eye- That's a XX magazine recovered from the Dillinger arrest in Tucson. I've addressed it in one of the posts here- NMCP has it now. I'm on the board with them as an advisor to the 30s outlaws, so may be able to borrow it for a shoot. ??? As I remember, it's a blank.

Rob, Am hoping some of the group here will be able to shed some light. I've seen a list in one of the books, maybe an old On the Spot, I'll check. I had an older gal want to sell me a Buntline Special that she said Dillinger buried under her porch at the escape from Little Bo Lodge. HAA. Probably looked like the granny in Goldfinger with the MP-40 or whatever it was

Darryl- Frank Hamer's Monitor. FYI They had the wrong sign on it, called it a BAR.

I don't, might be a real tough thing(s) to find, I'd even wonder if they exist ?

You do, actually. It is under our care with the FBI in our capitol. Rob, as you probably know, the lost Dillinger Colt pocket pistol was found recently. It was mounted in the FBI display case with other Dillinger artifacts, however in recent years some Colt gun noticed the numbers and traced the gun on display to Volney Davis in 1935. ( remember I'm on memory a lot these days but I'm damn close ) So what happened to the real Dillinger gun? Nobody knew, gone, stolen from the FBI ??? Mystery. What happened, when the FBI took down the display to redo it or whatever, they they stored all the Dillinger stuff, gun still missing. Dr. John Fox, FBI historian, was in the closet where the Dillinger artifacts were stored with other things and here was the original gun, had probably been misplaced in another display or something. You can go to Larry Wacks site and read the story. How they mounted these guns, they drilled holes right through them to bolt to the wall. In one of my postings on the guns, is the original, you can see the mounting holes- Yes, I believe the same to the historic Thompsons !!

So, what happened to all the guns, cars, clothes the outlaws left behind ? ( & money ) Lot was owned by the families, lot now in private collections and other things in public museums. The National Musuem of Crime & Punishment in Washington , DC has a lot of goodies. I'm trying to make a loan with them to get the Dillinger XX box magazine that was recovered at the Tucson arrest. They have it. I'd like to run a couple rounds through it, just cause. The FBI has a large collection of guns & things found. Our collection, The John Dillinger Historical Museum ( private collection ) had a lot of items Bill Helmer has a collection The John Dillinger Museum in Indiana ( Joe Pinkston's old museum ) A Casino in Vegas has the death car & Clyde's shirt. Car Museum in Ohio I think, has the death car hats we owned on display & a Dillinger 32 Studebaker I think Dillinger shoes he had on when killed were used by his brother for a number of years and tossed, same with his shirt- The straw boater, cigar, glasses and some other things are with the FBI. The Dillinger family still owns a lot of stuff, it's in a bank vault. I was lucky enough to be able to see some of this stuff. The Barrow family has sold most of Clyde's things, Bonnie's dress and all were burned in the 60s because on ongoing bad memories, niece still had her ring. Pretty Boy Floyd's things were auctioned off a number of years ago, I had his ring accidently stuck on my finger for a brief time, funny now, panic then. WWII took a lot of cars, got three Dillinger cars and the Death car that are still around. The Ford left at the Bonnie & Clyde shoot out in Iowa, was set on display at the local Skelly station for years, then cut in half for the war effort- This gets confused with the death car. Various PDs have the Thompsons, Porter County, Tucson, FBI and I think St Paul has the Valentines D one. Will post stuff relating to Thompsons ...

Just some more " stuff " OCM

Darryl, Yes Larry is a great guy, check the credits on his web site, I think you'll see my name there. I also worked with him a bit on research of the " lost " Dillinger pistol that was recently discovered. I've got a fairly good article on the R80 somewhere, I think it was in Small Arms Review years back. See if I can dig that up. The FBI files on Nelson , I believe lists the Monitor, I'll check that too. The video might be tuff, I've got boxes & boxes of old gangster films etc. The FBI one might be included in one, we'll see. Hoover was on this anti-crime thing , doing these shorts in the movie houses. It wasn't all monitor firing, but there are movies of them at the range included. I think I can set up the old VHS, we'll see. Got pictures of the Hamer one also... Yes, a Hoover R80 is a very rare & historical item. Give me some time, see what I can produce for you. Sandy

Lucky guy to have a Monitor, of course you know that. If you go back to post #1, bottom right car was the one Baby Face Nelson was using. His gang member John Chase was in the rear seat of the car and fired a Monitor right through the front window of the car at the police ! ( from the back seat ) The Monitor was never recovered to my knowlegde and has disappeared. It's believed that Frank Hamer used his monitor on Bonnie & Clyde, firing into the car from the rear, all the way around. Holes indicate a 30.06 round too. Photo is an out-take from the Hoover movie with Hoover directing his FBI agents on a range with Monitors, maybe one of yours ? Movie is hard to find, I may have a copy in my collection ( VHS ) , if I do , welcome to borrow it. As I remember, it was shown at movie theaters like Newsreels. Sandy

Jim, I'm the newer guy here, my deal is research, so I spent a bit of time educating myself, asking tons of questions, and patience, when I bought mine. I love my 28 overstamp, gun was taken to a bank robbery in the early 70s, one of the Whitey Bulger gang members had robbed a bank, and a bunch of other stuff I gleaned from the source, including pictures of the gun at the robbery, & info from it's original purchase in 1935. The Sheriff clan & I took it out a couple weeks ago and ran 250+ rounds through it. I had replaced all the internals with Savage from Omgea and it was one hell of a great time ! If you get it, I'll be more then happy to buy your Colt actuator- ( said the spider to the flea ) HA. Do your research best you can, compare guns & $$$, ask these pros loads of questions and do it. Think about David's post # 6 here. I'm a classic car collector also, had a couple #@+&***$$#$ cars. Happens. Can send scans of mine for comparison if you'd like, pros & cons on both. This is more of a support response then a comparison one, need that too- Lucky to have this great resource, I've had a hell of a lotta help from these folks !! You will too- Good luck My 25 cents OCM

Fine toys you have, Darryl, the Hoover gun , I assume a very RARE Colt Monitor R-80 ? Never touched one or been that close to one. Frank Hamer's is/was displayed at the Texas Ranger Museum in Waco. ( Bonnie & Clyde ) Your avatar has the FBI guy with two of them. I have to assume you've seen the film of Hoover's " You Can't Get Away with It " 1936. He has his agents lined up, shooting the FBI Colt Monitors. Top notch equipment you got Darryl, I'm jealous of course. So, you want to trade for the red 1958 BMW Isetta, huh ? HAAAHHHAAA. You betcha ! OCM

Take you pick Darryl, all gased up and ready to go, nothing to do but grab your Thompson, hit a bank and off you go, usually to jail Never can have enough Thompsons or garage space. If you want to trade, I'm partial to 21 ACs & pre-war 38 Supers ( 31-34 is best ) . My old Pontiac is a 1933 4 door, as pictured here with Clyde Barrow and Joe Palmer ( this is an original family picture) All with big 8s, not fast tho....... OCM

www.auto-ordnance.com

Lots of goodies here, Thompsons, BARS and the pistol Dillinger had on him when killed....

Misc Baby Face Nelson items- Probably the worst outlaw of them all. A master of the Thompson, so they said.

OK , then, The Baby Face Nelson car was a lot less work- Only a little guy like Nelson and a Thompson would fit.

Cool, maybe now the old fart will get off his kiester , and write some good stuff on this Thompson site !!

Bonnie & Clyde death car clone- This is how the car looked just prior to the ambush where it & they were shot all to hell.

The Racine robbery Thompson, Navy overstamp, on display and a collection of Dillinger/Clyde Barrow -type weapons, some real, some display. Also an original pencil drawing of a TSMG , done & autographed by Machine Gun Kelly while he was in prison.

the Little Bo Lodge

The famous Dillinger wood toy escape gun, his father with it at the Little Bohemia Museum

I'm to lazy to go upstairs and look it up in my Hill book, but didn't the 1927 Thompson come with a long barrel ( at one time ), and semi-auto for prison guards ? That being said, the Kahr 1927 A-1 would be a correct ( historical ) Thompson, in the Deluxe model? Elkoholic, you can shorten the barrel by moving the Cutts back, to be flush with the end and thus staying in the legal limits with the BATF. Cutts wouldn't function then, but how much good does a Cutts provide with a semi-auto anyway ? It's kinda like chasing rainbows to me, but it would give a better look if that's the goal and avoid the BATF stuff. I'm new at this so quad-driple check with the experts here, if interested. OCM

That would be a 1927 A-1 Deluxe ( Kahr of course ) , but everyone knew that anyway. sorry, I'm a one finger typer with older typing joints.....

Elkoholic, Yes, welcome to the board, I'm also a newer newbie here. Great site learn a lot, every day. I also have a 1921 A-1 Deluxe, that has the removable buttstock. I treat it as a 45 cal rifle for target practicing in the mountains. A Thompson incognito as a carbine. Got it years ago. Good one to let the Outlaws ( inlaw relatives ) shoot, since they never volunteer to pay for ammo. They really aren't that valuable so I never did any changes, just a screw around gun. Mine came with a L drum, XXX box magazine ( altered to fit ) & a China case. You might consider the Thompson pistol thing they are selling, if you haven't bought one yet. Looks like a 21AC with no buttstock. ( sorta ) OCM