MG34bar

My September, 1947 TM9-1211 Ordnance Maintenance manual gives the free-length of all BAR springs (p.23) and gives the proper recoil spring measurements as: coils=130; mean assembled height=11 inches; load at assembled height=9.6 pounds (+ or- 1); load at Min. Operating height=18 pounds (+ or - 1): free length=16.5 inches.

After reading the comments about BAR muzzle caps (AKA thread protectors) I ordered one from Numrich, although I thought the threads might be metric in as much as they are noted as being “FN” and therefore not able to fit the US BAR. I got it in the mail today and it is in good condition and fits either of my rifles perfectly. These have always been hard to find (at least for me) and I made one years ago out of a US BAR blank muzzle cap. Thanks for the information!

I really don’t have a need for another BAR, but the 50 or so BARs made by “Pony” Maples were very well made, as I had number B47 (I think that was the number). Maples made M2 .50 BMGs for the US (and also for Israel I believe) and they also were 1st class productions. In my opinion his guns were the equal to the WWI guns of Colt, Winchester, or Marlin-Rockwell, and the current bid amount seems very low. Perhaps many don’t recognize the name and are fearful of getting some “off brand” poor quality gun. They need not fear that at all.

I have had several of the OOW semi BARs, and still have one left (marked R/O - receiver only - with a serial number, as OOW used one of my old parts kits to put it together for me) and from the first one (serial No. 54; bought in 1996 I think) to the last one I have always been able to get them to work on the large gas setting on the GI gas regulator when new. Later on, after about 100-200 rounds, they would work on the middle setting without drilling the holes out. I think the”break-in” period was due to the fresh Parkerizing and after some “smoothing out” through firing the gun works well enough if using good GI power loads. Might try a regular gas regulator to see if it will work. If it will not, you haven’t lost anything but a little time.

J F Bell: Hi J F, just a note that, in the dim and distant past (45 year ago) when almost all the transferable BARs were returns from England, we were all doing the opposite; that is taking the 1918 guns and making them 1918A2 configuration. As I remember the M1917 rear sight leaf and the 1918 BAR leaf were slightly different. I think the M1917 leaf was longer, and I always thought that was due to the difference in "sight radius" in that the M1917 had a 26" barrel while the BAR barrel is 24". Then again, my memory isn't what it used to be anymore. Joe

Hunter, I've had several of both the BAR and the Lewis. No longer have a Lewis, but still have 2 BARs. I have to say that my experience with spares for the Lewis has been that they are around, but not plentiful like BAR parts. Make sure you get a .303 Lewis, as the parts for the US .30/06 guns are very hard to find. If you want to go to the range and just shoot without "tinkering" the BAR is the way to go (Bob Landies has both 20 and 30 round magazines for the BAR). The Lewis is a chore to set up for firing each time you go out. Like some have advised above I never shoot corrosive ammo in such valuable guns: makes clean up faster and easier. Good luck, Joe

I had an ERMCO BAR years ago and sold it to a friend. The gun was very well built. My serial number was B4X, and the serial number on top of the receiver is read with the barrel pointed to the right, unlike US military BARs. The BARs with the bad machining (not all of them) were the Group Industries. I've seen some that had the front of the receiver (just under the barrel) machined so that one side was visibly thicker than the other side.

My 1943 NESA BAR has (what appears to be) the original NESA barrel with the appropriate date for the guns serial number. I have owned this one for 33 years and, in my younger days, shot the hell out of it. My barrel gauges 2 on the muzzle wear, and 6 on the throat wear, but it still shoots reasonably accurately at 200 - 300 yards without any evidence of "key-holing". The US TM9-1211 manual dated "September, 1947" has a chart on pages 20-21 that gives the "serviceability requirements" for BARs in three columns: 1. In the hands of Troops, 2. to accompany troops overseas, and 3. to be placed in storage for reissue. The maximum allowable throat erosion for "in the hands of troops" is .310, while that for weapons to be placed in storage for reissue is .306. Those standards would be seen as far too great a wear amount for a rifle, but not so for a machine gun. While I have spare barrels with much less wear, I have never felt the need to replace the original barrel until the shooting accuracy deteriorates.

Back when I had a couple British Lewis Guns (both BSA guns in .303) I purchased several items from a Japanese Lewis to keep as "spare parts". I figured that they would need a bit of fitting to use on the British guns, but when I made use of the spares I found that all fit perfectly (rear spade grip; bolts, etc.) without any fitting at all. Seems that the Japanese made their guns as exact copies of the British ones (other than the larger trigger guard). Joe

MGCollector, My NESA BAR is number 5198XX (made shortly after yours) and I have had it for more than 35 years. It appears to have the original barrel, which is a NESA dated 6-43. Your gun seems to be one of the earliest made by NESA. Perhaps they were using up spare WWI barrels before the company got fully into production? Mine also has the B.O.L. mark, but I have never been able to determine the source of that marking. Joe

Hi Michael, In my experience none of the US BARs are "picky" about ammo (unlike the M1 Garand). I shoot mostly the CMP issued Greek 30/06 ammo that is still available from them. I've also shot rather warm commercial hunting loads with heavy bullets (180-220 gr.) without any damage or problems with the guns. The straight operating rod/piston/slide of the BAR, together with the adjustable gas system does not have the "twisting" problem of the M1/M14. As far as finding inexpensive (but good quality) ammunition that can be difficult. Joe

Mike, Where can you still get Portuguese 8mm? I once had many cases of it but I'm about out (my last boxes of it are head stamped "FNM 74-12"). Thought it was all gone, but would like some more if it's still around. Joe

When I was buying pre-86 dealer samples (1982/1983) from ARMEX (Broderick, California) they had 1918A2 BARs for $350, but the buyer could pay a little extra (I recall it being about $50) to get the manufacturer of your choice. Almost paid that to get one made by IBM (I carried that one in the Army) but $50 was a lot of money back then so I got a NESA (still have it). Should have bought a Colt. Still have the old ARMEX catalog with those long gone prices (most expensive one I bought was a MKI Bren for $595). By the way, the ATF in those days didn't even try to figure out the real manufacturer for most non-US guns. The MG34/42 forms were simply marked "German Manufacture" and the Brens were "British Manufacture".

Mike, You might already be fully aware of this, so forgive me if I'm repeating stuff, but I can't tell if your bolt has the "anti-bounce" spring/plunger installed. I "blew up" my first MG42 in 1974 by not using that addition, but fortunately did little damage to it. After learning about that bolt bounce problem I found the needed parts (rather inexpensively) and after installing that item never had any further problems with the gun. By the way, I bought that first MG42 (nearly new condition) from Dolf Goldsmith for $400. How time flies. Joe Mangan

Hello to all, I looked in the MOH posts and did not find the name of an old soldier I knew personally: that being Sgt. Major Paul HUFF. SMG Huff was awarded the MOH for action in Italy 2/8/44, and he told me that he used a Thompson SMG during that action (SMG Huff was my Sgt. Major when I served with him in the 101st Airborne Division at Ft. Campbell, Ky. beginning in February, 1963). I'm surprised that he was not included in the MOH list, as I have a copy of the 9/15/98 "Thompson Collectors News" cover on my wall. That cover shows SMG Huff with his good friend (and fellow Tennessee soldier) Alvin York. On that cover Huff holds an M1A1 Thompson, and York holds a 1903 Springfield rifle. Might want to include Huff in your HOV. Joe Mangan

The sling on the Monitor looks like the standard (for a BAR) leather sling, that was similar to the US rifle sling, but somewhat longer, and IIRC had an extra set of sling hooks. Looking at the diagrams in my "Colt Automatic Machine Guns and Rifles" (as reprinted in 1993 by Class Three Ordnance of Fairfax, VA), the Monitor (R80) shows that sling as part No.140 on plate No. 5 of the diagram on page 7 of the copied brochure. Joe

Hi Again Darryl, Just noticed that in Ballou's book "Rock..." on page 99 he notes a Colt BAR sold to Washoe County (the one in Nevada is the only county in US so named) with a date of sale of April 23, 1931. Do you think that your gun was perhaps made in 1931 but not sold to Washoe County until 1934 or maybe the county bought two of them? Joe

Darryl, I never shot the Monitor, but I did see it. I was a BAR man in the Army (ask me about carrying the heavy thing for 10-15 miles at a time across Ft. Ord, California in 1962) and have had many different BARs over the years. I currently have only one FA (a 1943 NESA) and one OOW SA at this time, and a Savage M1A1 Thompson (kept those two when I let my Class 3 go in 1986). Doug Gist is a good man and I'm certain will be a great assistance to you in getting further research on your new gun. Congratulations on your new rare piece. Joe

Darrylta, I remember when that Monitor was up for sale back in 1973 or 1974, as I was a traffic officer with the Reno Police Dept. (Reno is the largest city in Washoe County). I was also an FFL dealer and had my application "in" to get the class 3 registration (it came through in 1974) but too late to buy the Monitor if I even could have afforded it at the time. The Sheriff at that time (of the Washoe Co. purchase) would have been either Russell Traythen or Ray Root. By the way, when I retired from the police department (1990) they still retained a nice 1921 Thompson that had been found in a stolen car in a parking garage in Reno at about the same time Baby Face Nelson was in town and staying at an address on Caliente Street in Reno. Nelson is suspected of the kidnap/murder of Roy Frisch on 3/22/34. Frisch was about to testify against the Reno Casino owners for whom Nelson sometimes worked. Don't know if the PD still has the Thompson or not. Joe

Spoke with Dolf yesterday. He is doing OK and is in the hospital in Las Vegas, where his phone number is: 702-940-8825, Rm 112, however, Dolf said that that phone rings too softly for him to hear it, so anyone calling should use his cell phone: 702-306-0267. Joe