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historicalgmen

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historicalgmen last won the day on November 25 2017

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    Kentucky
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    Retired Special Agent, FBI
    Classic cars; Depression Era; Early FBI
    Western lore

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  1. Sandy Jones's Obituary on the Fort Collins Coloradoan For info, Sandy's wife had confused the dates of the memorial at their home. It is actually next Saturday.
  2. I received the below from one who has contact with Sandy's wife, Karen. Other than what you see, I have no additional information. Note Karen's email address if you need the address. larry wack FBI - Ret. ======= Memorial Service for Sandy Jones Saturday 24th of February@ their home in Ft. Collins. Co.from 1-3PM. Any QuestionE-mail Karen@rowleyinteriors@comcast.net
  3. Folks, As soon as I obtained funeral arrangements etc., I'll post them on here (unless someone else obtains them). Like most of you, I'm still reeling from this tragic news. Sincerely and Saddened, Larry Wack
  4. I am posting this here but would appreciate anyone passing it along to other forums, friends etc. At 6:45pm this evening I received a phone call from a close friend of Sandy Jones advising me that his wife, Karyn, had apparently discovered him in the basement of their house earlier and unresponsive. He had been working on his "brew." It now appears that Sandy had a sudden fatal heart attack in all probability. I don't have to tell anyone the sudden shock of this and how much our friend will be missed. I have no additional information at this point, and I'm sure more will be coming in the next several days. This truly is a sad time for all..... You can reach me direct at: rypublish@verizon.net and as I receive information, I'll pass it along. I don't get back to this forum everyday so contact me direct if need be. Sincerely and with sadness, Larry Wack FBI ( Retired)
  5. From multiple docs seen, my opinion is clearly it's a "6" and not a "5" wack
  6. I seem to recall from a prior review that there were in fact a couple of weapons of the Nelson/Chase crowd never found, one of which very well could have been the Monitor Chase had. I do know, and docs support it, that Cowley's revolver was taken by them and not retrieved last I recall. The Canadian's thought they had found it up there in possession of some guy named Sparling, but I'm not certain how that played out. I don't have documents to support all of this immediately avail. The first logical thought regarding discrepancies in reporting crime scene findings, whether it’s 1934 or 2017 is the mere fact that minute to minute, hour to hour, the findings are changing rapidly. Especially during chaotic shooting incidents and resulting chases exhibited at Barrington. During my tenure, I’ve experienced these discrepancies a thousand times over at crimes scenes and command post positions and I’m sure other lawmen here have also. It’s the nature of the beast. 3 guns found today, turns into 6 guns tomorrow! Eventually over the days, it all gets straightened out. With the arrival of various jurisdictions to an already existing chaotic situation, the potential problems increase dramatically in multiple ways. Both then, and still today. In this instance of Barrington in 1934, there are no cell phones, no FBI radios, no “real time” exchange of information and everyone at the scene is scrambling for pay phones to call HQ with updates etc. which is normal. Because there was the death of 2 FBI agents, and escaping killers, the pandemonium present was no doubt ratcheted beyond normal with everyone trying to get a handle on “what exactly happened, and how?” larry wack
  7. For info, although I haven't found Officer Gallagher's full statement yet, attached is a blurb showing he recovered Nelson's Thompson. He also retrieved, according to another doc., 3 spent rifle shells. Also attached is a 1938 listing of the evidence in the Cowley/Hollis murders. Note presence of the Winchester. HolCow '38 Evidence.pdf
  8. One last thing for what it's worth. I didn't know Gordon but in my contacts with him, he was amiable and helpful and he knew I was a former Agent. He had discussed his travel to FBIHQ back in the early 90s I think it was and his meetings with Firearms and Lab personnel in doing his research etc. He obviously had some great access to the records back then and no doubt "made some friends" who were also interested in his research. I'm sure his contact with them continued for years. Obviously he could fill in the gaps for them at times, and they could assist his research with records. There was nothing wrong with that at the time.... My discussions on and off with Gordon were comical at times because in asking a question, he'd sometimes say to me "my sources told me" or "I can't reveal my sources, etc." I used to remind him that it was pretty apparent who his "sources" were.....and no need to play "007" with me on the phone.
  9. Gents, I am literally in the middle of packing for a residential move from Buffalo area to Danville, Kentucky with departure date this coming Tuesday. I have to run around today but I'll try to attempt to address some of these finding issues later on, on here, or tomorrow at the max. I am not going to have all the answers at this juncture. By Monday, my Internet service here will be cut off and I won't get service down there until I arrange for it and you know how that goes time wise. Best I'll be able to do maybe is take my Ipad to a "hot spot" coffee shop on Main St. down there and communicate from there. The only file I am pulling documents from is the 62 Dillinger FOIA file. 62-29777 Off the top, and I don't know if anyone can find it, but transcripts of the Chase trial, the testimony of officers, Lab experts ....who found what, where, and the rest may be a viable option. If again, you can find it. Back to you later.... Larry Wack
  10. Hans, the last digit is an "8." I've attached a 1934 document showing the Nelson Thompson etc. submitted for Lab exam. Also, I've attached a document revealing that as late as 1967, the Nelson Thompson and others were at FBIHQ. There's a notation that in 1968 they were placed in the Firearms Reference Section. I cannot confirm that they are still there today. As for statements to the effect that weapons were not found etc., I'd only be speculating without knowing what was transpiring during these comments. larry wack 1967 chase:nelson weapons.pdf 34 Nelson gun submissions.pdf
  11. As a reminder to some who may have forgotten or not aware regarding the Chase/Hollis indictment, although he had been serving time for the murder of Inspector Cowley, 20 years later Chase had not yet been tried on the December 31, 1934, indictment charging him with Special Agent Hollis’s murder. On April 27, 1955, a motion was filed in United States District Court, Chicago, Illinois, demanding immediate trial on this indictment or its dismissal. On October 17, 1955, a United States District judge dismissed the indictment that charged Chase with Hollis’s murder. He held that Chase’s mere knowledge of the indictment and his failure to take action did not constitute a waiver of his right to a speedy trial. When the pending indictment was dismissed, Chase became eligible for parole. After parole had been denied repeatedly, Chase finally was paroled from Leavenworth on October 31, 1966. After his release, Chase resided in California, where he was employed as a custodian for over six years. He died of cancer in 1973.
  12. Gents, In the interest of fairness and more importantly, the facts surrounding the Barrington shoot out, there is something that needs to be mentioned here regarding this extremely complicated post shooting investigation. All of it is a myriad of witness accounts, extensive Lab exams, ballistic testing and more that is extremely mind boggling to say the least. In view of the NRA article and the author's observations and conclusions about which weapons killed Hollis, Cowley and Nelson, I was curious by the mention of .45 cal in the killing of Hollis (i. e. via the colt monitor) since we had the Lab report etc. revealing .351 cranial findings. As a result, over the last few days, I took a look at the files again, this time advancing forward into the time frame of nearing the upcoming Chase trial and what evidence had surfaced and what would be used. I had not examined this post shooting investigation myself in several years now. In a nutshell, Hollis cranial fragments did....in fact.....also reveal .45 caliber fragment. This was going to pose some questions with the .351 findings in that it was going to be difficult to prove some aspects of Chase/Nelson guns used and what exactly happened during the gunfire exchanges. My own observations of the trial evidence at hand, the extensive Lab exams, and witness statements at the scene reveal to me personally that any conclusions reached by researchers and others are going to be debated until "hell freezes over." I'm adding a memo or maybe two if I see them, with some concerns ongoing at the time with the upcoming prosecution of Chase murdering SA Hollis, as shown in the indictment. (An indictment for the murder of Cowley would come later) "Enjoy" Larry Wack FBI - Ret. Chase trial problems.pdf
  13. Since I haven't seen Hunter's article, I personally don't know how his conclusions were reached. Having said that, attached is probably the forensic evidence regarding the Hollis head wounds that you folks recall seeing. The direction pointed towards the .351 as you'll note. I'm also attaching the report of the Barrington shooting by FBI Supervisor Virgil Peterson which will also provide summaries of who will testify to what in the Chase trial. In general, I find Peterson's report to be a good reference to what happened overall. In other documents it's apparent to me anyhow that initially, Chase provided conflicting information in his early statements with what existed otherwise including forensics. Chase no doubt was trying to minimize his role in the actual killings of Hollis and Cowley at that particular scene, although he admits to firing on them during the car chase. Larry Wack FBI - Ret. hollisheadwoundcomparison.pdf cowholpetersonreport.pdf
  14. In the event you don't have it, or would like to, attached here are the details of the finding of Dillinger Thompson 7387 in the lake. Notice....no stock! By the way, as my grandmother used to say, "Never let your historical research interfere with your drinking habits...." Enjoy larry wack 7387 Finding '34.pdf
  15. By the way, I did forget to mention one thing! Downing your favorite scotch, whiskey, or whatever while reviewing files is more than welcomed! Being an insider, and having been assigned numerous designated "Major Cases," I have found myself at times doing the same thing. Reading a report or communication, and sitting here wondering "what is this agent doing, and why is he doing it?" Then again, I try to remember that the early pioneers were all still in the learning stages for the most part of criminal investigations. I also note that at times the extent of the details, as readily seen in this case and others, for the time period is sometimes mind boggling. Think I'll have another hit of my favorite Canadian whiskey called "Piehole."
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