DC Chris

Simple - this is apples and oranges. This is not a Savage gun from WWII so it will not have an S on the reciever. It is a West Hurley gun from 1977. And if you are buying, it should be priced significantly less than a Savage gun from the WWII era.

"Speed bolt"? Clipped blish lock? Avoid unless PK makes it right.

I say negotiate it and get a good price on it. Send it off for refurbishment with the money you save.

Dave- We have to agree to disagree on the context of that statement from the get go. Consider the Second Amendment Foundation. www.saf.org To diverge and talk about effectiveness for a second, the SAF has sued my state to try to grant us CCW and it is in progress. Alan Gura is the co-counsel. If you don't remember who he is, keep reading. The NRA has almost ignored us in liberal Maryland. The NRA might have done some good at the federal level (or rode the pro-2A movement after Clinton which is more likely), but I find the NRA to be totally inept where I need them most - defending my rights in my neighborhood and where I live, work and play. Maybe its a numbers or a least loss game. But, the bottom line - you can carry a gun to protect your TSMG collection and family if you want to. I can't because we are "may issue" with impossibly high and arbitrary standards. The NRA doesn't do anything with this issue in this state, but the SAF actively does. With respect to NFA - the 86 FOPA maneuver was 100% political. There is no way it will ever be overturned and it is what it is. No politician will touch that issue (reversal of 922(o)) with a 10 foot pole given the confusion of MG's and EBR Semi's. Even if another group got the interstate commerce clause on MG's dispelled, in my opinion, it wouldn't take long to make what we have now even more restrictive or vanish completely. We have to be careful for what we wish for... who wants a $5000 transfer? Any politician who would vote to allowing machine guns back on the street has about the same chance of reelection as I have owning my own island in Tahiti with my own harem of 100 blonde ex-Playboy playmates. Speaking of effectiveness in states I don't live in, the SAF is also suing shall issue in New York and gun grabber "emergency powers" in NC like the goofball Mayor Ray Nagin tried in New Orleans after Katrina. It is the little things like Heller vs. DC and now McDonald vs. Chicago mean a lot more to me as an effective organization. SAF and Gura were the victors and the reason the Constitution and the 2nd Amendment are now much more relevant and incorporated over state preemption. Yes, the NRA filed an amicus curiae in support of both cases (a friend of the court briefing), but the Second Amendment Foundation filed, funded, litigated and won both the Heller and McDonald cases with Gura. Not the NRA. I know this is an NFA themed post, but I wanted to make a counterpoint about the effectiveness of an organization and what they are trying to do. Unless you know something we don't, a nice Thompson display at a few events or articles in their own magazine doesn't show me anything about the needle moving. Call me silly, but I don't see that as real progress ... it's just window dressing and an acknowledgment of the past. With all due respect, I don't agree with your assertions in your post unless you care to show me some tangible proof. Have you noticed that there is no mention of ANY current, modern civilian transferable NFA news or reviews in American Rifleman? Last time I checked, there was absolutely nothing about NFA other than throwback WWII articles. The proof is in the pudding for a whole NFA class of federally legal (and legal in most states as well) firearms and accessories that they seem to willfully ignore. Thank God for Small Arms Review. But, I will promise you this - if I ever see a sound suppressor review in American Rifleman, I will eat my words and become a lifetime member. For the interest of full disclosure... yes, I am a member but I don't see them being effective at changing local, state or turning back NFA/FOPA laws. I may actually discontinue my membership with the NRA based on the continued and willful neglect of the modern NFA firearms scene - that is what I am into. I can't take the ho-hum .357 magnum revolver and .40 caliber carbine reviews for much longer, or give money to an organization that ignores title II for the most part completely. Chris. P.S. Memberships to the SAF are 100% tax deductible as they are not a lobbying group. Can't say the same about the NRA.

I'm all for due process and innocent until proven guilty, but seriously... did you even read the indictment? That is some serious mud for someone who you claim to be the most "by-the-book dealer" you have ever dealt with. These aren't minor errors due to a bureaucracy. I posted this for Thompson enthusiasts to gain some knowledge about fake Thompson articles out there, even more being personal to me for this coming down in my own anti-2A home state. I would disagree with your opinion and completely refuse to risk my collection, legal status and finances on some "potential" criminal involved in *alleged* "shenanigans" and suggest that anyone reading this to check your serial numbers and avoid any of those knuckleheads like the plauge... even if they still have an 02/07 left to trade on. Its this kind of BS that brings very, very negative and public PR to us and our hobby... and I would even go as far as to say that it doesn't matter of the legal outcome. The damage is done and even worse, some likely very innocent folks who thought they had an investment got completely duped... and there are less guns in the registry for it. But hey, they all are innocent until proven guilty, right?

Looks like this was done to some TSMG's as well. I would speculate that one could easily determine if they had a "MAC like" serial on a Thompson that something is rotten in the state of Denmark. Nothing but dealer greed and even worse - destroying transferable machine guns and anyone possessing these guns will likely be found and have their "investment" confiscated. Less and less guns in the registry..... what a shame. http://www.hometownannapolis.com/news/top/...-case.html?ne=1

Welcome to the forums! Not really a big mystery, however. Search around the forum or get yourself one of the fine Thompson books out there. Try http://www.gunshowbooks.com/cgi-bin/webc.e...prodid=GS407524 for a good history, including the NAC's. Some NAC info... probably not related.http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/ind...?showtopic=9050 My guess: A surplus, in the white WWII receiver made into a firearm and sold by George Numrich of Numrich Arms Corporation (NAC) in the 60's. Sounds like the "N" is worn off or missed during the strike your lower. Not as collectible as a Colt, or a true non-NAC assembled WWII vet bring back, but better than a West Hurley Thompson. There is a long story about the history of Thompson parts and guns after WWII. Mostly there are 1928 NAC models, but I have seen a NAC M1 out there in my time... I can't remember where though... maybe somewhere in PA? Maybe it was yours! I am assuming the receiver does not have a "normal" Savage serial #, just the NAC one. I would guess that this might have been something that NAC acquired in its "crates of parts" acquisition from the previous owners.... probably was an in the white receiver/ non finished surplus that he registered with the Treasury department. The sights, if the receiver was not finished, was probably something NAC did to make the gun more desirable for domestic sales or by original customer request/upgrade. Since it doesn't sound like the receiver was ever used before, the whole gun and lower had to have been created with surplus, non matching parts. The lower could have came out of a bin of surplus that NAC had that were parted out of accepted lend-lease guns and matched the two up when he finished the receiver and assembled the gun. That might be one scenario of how you have a receiver with the different sights and a LL lower with other proof marks. Or, it could have been changed in its lifetime, but having the (N)"AC" stamp on it makes me think that was the luck of the draw when assembled... or it locked up well so he struck the lower with the same serial as the upper to keep them paired up during assembly. Another option is to file a FOIA request on it and see what is says, but it would probably only have the history from NAC registration on. Short of a time machine, this is the best guess I can come up with. Anyway, sounds like a great gun with some unique features. Enjoy it and shoot it! Chris.

Yep... I remember shooting those on the boardwalk in Ocean City, MD a loooooonnnngggg time ago with my father. Sounds like a really cool item! David - Maybe a for sale/trade/wtb sub forum is worth trying? Even though I personally have no objections for this being here. This group always has neat stuff and we could keep it "in the family" versus going to other boards.... could just be parts or accessories or collectibles like this if potential liability on firearms isn't worth this risk. Might be a cool idea to keep it in a single section for all to enjoy and use to search through if we needed something.

http://www.thompsonsmg.com/BLOGS.htm

Interesting... I live about 5 minutes away from this place and never bothered to join. For all of the information I researched, they had polices (at least in the past) totally against NFA firearms use on their facility. I wasn't upset about it, it is their house and their rules, so I chose to shoot elsewhere. But its nice to see that they are now at least permitting use of full auto weapons - even if this is a special event. Maybe its time to give them another look. I won't post a link or name the facility (that is Bill's job), but it is nice. Two things to keep in mind - its is usually really hot and humid that time of the year over here (be prepared) and remember you can't CCW or open carry in this state. Maryland doesn't recognize any out of state permits for those who have them.

"Near mint original bluing"? Looks like it was used to prop open a door.... Just like the "Near springtime conditions" I enjoyed shoveling out from today....

Hi - Welcome to the forums. Sorry to hear about your issues. Semi Thompsons can run like a dream or be as cursed as you describe.. both the Kahr and West Hurley semi's. Personally - I wouldn't go through the work of making a new bolt both for the time and safety aspects.. but I am not to saying you and your father couldn't fabricate it as there is plenty of machine talent around the firearms community. Check with Damon at tommygunner.com - he has bolts in stock for your gun: http://tommygunner.com/pages/parts/index.htm Sort of unrelated question - What type of ammo are you using? You probably already know that steel cased stuff (wolf, for example) is really hard on extractors, bolt issues aside. Back to your original question - no - a full auto bolt will not work in a semi auto configuration as built. The receiver dimensions and upper components are different between the full auto and semi auto guns. This was a provision in order to get ATF acceptance by Ira Trast back in the 70's for the closed bolt semi auto design... the thought being that leveraging too many full automatic parts would render the gun too easy to make back into an unregistered machine gun. That point is debatable, but the full auto and semi's were designed and operate on very different principles.

James - The whole idea of your first question is moot. It still costs $200 to manufacture an AOW by a non-SOT regardless. Only the transfer (non tax exempt) is $5.00. Check out the F1 in box 1a - its always a $200 tax for non-exempt individuals. No difference in taxes for manufacturing for individuals: http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-1.pdf Norm - my last AOW transfer (and all the ones before it) did have the SN on the stamp. You got lucky, my friend! JT - Correct - to make a "AOW Shotgun" it has to come from the factory with a pistol grip. Still costs $200.00 to make it for non-SOTs. If it came from the factory with a full shoulder stock or you take an AOW and place a full stock on it (don't do it first!) it has to be registered (or reregistered if it was born an AOW) as a SBS on a form 1 with a $200 tax, unless you are tax exempt as noted on the form 1.

Agree with Bob & Gunny - the easiest diagnostic is to try some commercial ammunition, good old 230 grain ball. Considering you are using reloads, without seeing the gun or firing it, that would be where I start. I would also try multiple magazines to rule that out. Consider swapping your lower, buffer pilot, springs, etc from your kit too.

Considering it was introduced almost a year ago in the cuurent 111th congress and never made it out of committees, it is probably a safe bet it isn't going anywhere. But, 2010 is an election year, and the bill is still active for possible movement until the 112th congress sits on 1/3/2011. Then it will have to be reintroduced. The bill has to pass through the judiciary committee before it hits the floor for debate. Unfortunately, the head of the judiciary committee is our old nemesis John Conyers. Nothing will make it outside of his committee or continue the process without his approval, and considering he hates guns... there you go. (From ontheissues.org - this is a good resource for looking at views of elected officials and candidates) Strongly Opposes topic 10: Absolute right to gun ownership Rated F by the NRA, indicating a pro-gun control voting record: Strongly Opposes topic 10 NO on decreasing gun waiting period from 3 days to 1: Strongly Opposes topic 10 NO on prohibiting suing gunmakers & sellers for gun misuse: Strongly Opposes topic 10 NO on prohibiting product misuse lawsuits on gun manufacturers: Strongly Opposes topic 10 Personally, I agree that there is a need to pass this bill primarily to protect veterans from over-zealous felony persecution for unregistered NFA firearms, but someone like Conyers just doesn't see it our way and puts his liberal ideology and biased views ahead of the country and his constituency. It is clear he could care less about protecting our veterans and that is a goddamn shame. The lesson here is simple - make sure you vote in the fall of 2010 and try your hardest to elect pro-2A members. Do your research and make sure people you know are educated too. I also read in SAR that the NFATCA is trying to pursue this in a different angle. The director of the BATF has the apparent power to declare additional amnesty periods based on the language written in the 1968 CGA bill, so it is already authorized if he would decide to make it so without the need for this bill. However, all would agree that the last head of the BATF in a conservative congress with a conservative president could have done the same thing over the last 8 years and it also did not happen. I would suggest checking out the NFATCA or maybe even respectfully lobbying the director of the BATF to declare another amnesty to protect our veterans by sending a letter in the mail.

That is a good price. I saw some price gouging back in the day when they first came out, but the last few shows in my neck of the woods (Southern PA, Northern VA) didn't have them that low. I want to say I saw them in the high 4's, low 5's, but haven't been actively looking for C drums lately.

I just had a can come in with about a two month wait. SOT last name started with an "S".

As ReconBob stated in the thread that interord posted, the three specifically placed torch cuts must displace 1/4" of metal off of the receiver to pass ATF specs of demilitarizing a receiver. This is cut with a band saw, so it does not meet that definition and therefore contraband. Very simple - avoid. I have heard (from third hand + sources) that the ATF does cruise sites like GB now and then, but even if this slips through the cracks, is it worth what is sitting in your gun safe? And possibly your livelihood, house, savings, etc? For a fact, the ATF has gone after people before with illegal parts kits, that is well documented... charges notwithstanding. I know parts kits are expensive and rare now, but remember who the federal AG and president are... they doesn't like us or our guns. I would urge you or anyone you know to not be tempted and to err on the side of caution. When a legit gun owner makes a mistake, it makes us all look bad and there come more regulations... which is the last thing we need. Someone could make the argument that this is easily restorable and since the definition is black and white, my guess is you would have a hard time proving otherwise.

No idea, don't own any dummy guns. But, it does look really odd.... and overpriced.

I am 99% sure that is a IMA dummy receiver on a parts kit sold by IMA... http://www.ima-usa.com/product_info.php/cP...roducts_id/1012 http://www.ima-usa.com/images/MU1960-5.jpg

Old news - it has been sitting in committee since February 09 and has no co-sponsors. This nut job introduces this every year. It will very, very likely go nowhere is nothing to worry about for now. At least we can thank Obama for all of the new gun ownership in the USA. That pits a hell of a lot more of "us" versus "them" in the firearms debate and makes crap like this even more unpopular. That's about all I can thank the POTUS for.

Custom serial # or is that a post sample from the 1992 run? Your serial # falls within that range of being a postie. If it is, I always wondered about the quality and the story behind the WH post 86 receivers. BTW - Nice gun!

May he rest in peace and thank you for your service.

... oh boy... yours for only $68.00! http://www.tommygunshop.com/cgi-bin/itemdetail.asp?itmid=905 http://www.tommygunshop.com/images/dtl_T9.jpg Kind of sassy... no? http://www.tommygunshop.com/images/mdtlbp_T9.jpg Website says "new" as in new production (as well as new products.) Interestingly enough, it says "new" production for 30, 20 and these little guys. Can't easily tell from the photo but based on the price, its likely a cut down 20 or 30 rounder... but I could be wrong. No apparent markings but it looks to have some surplus wear. It would be a shame if it turns out these are cut down mags. Sad to say, they wouldn't have to do this unless some silly states had their own magazine capacity limits, but that is a subject for a different time.

I can guarantee that isn't serial #3. Look at any of those guys weapons, besides being ultra expensive (I asked him for a quote once and he told me 17K for at 12K gun - must think people don't research or are idiots), he photoshops out the serial #. Probably M3XX .. considering he doesnt show any serial numbers, that is probably a cut and paste paint/photoshop of another blued part of the receiver.