TD.

The Moor, Having two threads on the same subject is always confusing. Shown below are a few of the pictures you posted in the earlier thread regarding your unmarked 5-cell magazine pouch. One thing interesting to me is the manufacturer mark on the underside of the LIFT THE DOT snaps. The question: Is it a MILLS or RUSCO pouch? Attached are a few pictures for readers: I have never really studied the canvas items but like most enthusiasts, I know MILLS and Russell Manufacturing Company (RUSCO) manufactured canvas items for Auto-Ordnance Corporation during the Colt era. I have a few canvas items, but my collection is very limited. Tracie Hil has the best canvas collection I have seen. I am sure most of it is pictured in the new Thompson Encyclopedia series. On ebay yesterday I saw a very used RUSCO canvas carrying case with several features that I had not seen previously. It is very common for RUSCO cases to use the CARR marked snaps for the cleaning rod holder. However, I have never seen a marked CARR FAST. CO. lift the dot type snap on a RUSCO canvas carrying case. Also, the small inside snap for the cleaning rod is also marked. This is the link to the ebay auction: Rare Thompson Tommy Gun Rusco Canvas Gun Carry Case 1928 1921 | eBay Attached are a few pictures from this RUSCO canvas carrying case on ebay: I find this another data point regarding the history or possible maker for The Moor's one of a kind unmarked 5-cell magazine pouch. It would be interesting if all forum members who have RUSCO canvas carrying cases would check their cases for the above markings. Again, I believe this RUSCO canvas carrying case on ebay to be an early RUSCO case given the markings on the snaps. The wear certainly indicates it has been around!

deerslayer, If someone were to manufacture an oversize actuator, would it be fairly easy for someone like you, or PK., or reconbob, or Got Uzi to fit the oversize actuator to the West Hurley receiver to achieve the proper clearance?

johnsonlmg41, Help me understand this. I agree there is nothing special about West Hurley Thompson guns (except mine ). However, I do not understand the conversion statement. It appears to me these guns were originally manufactured by Auto-Ordnance, West Hurley, New York in different years as Model 1928 [sub] machine guns and so registered with ATF prior to 1986. My only question is who added the suffix serial number letters. Hopefully, Auto-Ordnance, West Hurley, New York or some other plausible explanation. This is the only reason I want to see the current ATF forms. Or at least the top half of the current ATF form with the weapon description information.

Great question reconbob. I have no idea regarding the failure rate of Colt era or Richardson actuators. That said, I have seen enough broken ones over the years to know it is a problem. A nice 1921 Colt actuator is $1500 plus in today's market when you can find one. Why take the chance. I do know from speaking with Doug years ago that he had to replace a number of his broken actuators. I actually had one break on me when dumping a L drum. If Colt era actuators were a hardy piece, there would be no need for anyone to make a replacement given the number of Form 10 Thompson guns that were cut up years ago. Original actuators would be plentiful. I have also seen a number of NAVY Colt's with USGI 1928 actuators. It appears this variation also had issues in the past. I believe the safest route for Colt owners with shooter grade guns in 1921 style is to use a cut-down USGI 1928 actuator with one of PK's hybrid 1921/1928 buffer pilots. If just running 1928 internals, a USGI actuator with a polyurethane buffer disc is the way to go. Those with my Amateur's Guide book can turn to pages 88 and 89 to see the results of using an original Colt era actuator at the range. Don't be that guy!

There is little doubt these are West Hurley Model 1928 Thompson submachine guns. All West Hurley submachine guns have a letter "A" serial number suffix. The first 199 West Hurley 1928 submachine guns also had a serial number prefix: A.O.C. The first guns also had the "A1" nomenclature marking. The first-year production guns in 1975 were serial numbers 100A to 298A. I do find the "DEW" and "DEWA" markings interesting. I would like to see what is specified on the current approved ATF form. Auto-Ordnance Corporation, West Hurley, New York would manufacture guns with special serial numbers upon request. Hopefully, that is what is happening here. It would be very problematic if a past owner just added letters (or numbers) to a registered serial number. Those interested in learning more about the West Hurley Thompson guns should have my fourth book, Thompson: Colt's West Hurley's & More.

Archmark, Congratulations on your "new" M1A1 Thompson submachine gun. I have never heard that the government inspectors stopped marking or inspecting Thompson guns toward the end of World War II. Production of the Thompson submachine gun ended in February 1944. The last large shipment occurred in December 1943: 31,052 guns. I assume this was guns from both factories. There were no shipments in January 1944, but the government accepted 4,091 M1A1 Thompson guns in February 1944. I believe this was the clean-up period that allowed both manufacturers to complete all guns on the assembly line that could pass inspection. I highly recommend Frank Iannamico's, American Thunder, 3rd Edition. It is a valuable resource for owners of the World War II Thompson submachine guns. When the transfer of your M1A1 Thompson is approved and you have it in-hand, reach out to me and I will help you with the FOIA process. I have been very successful in helping owners of Thompson guns obtain FOIA information.

deerslayer, I believe anytime you can obtain a complete Colt butt stock in good plus condition for under $3000 you have done well. Vertical fore grips in good plus condition can easily be $1500 plus and (pistol) grips in good plus condition can be $750 plus. It is very important when buying a Colt to know if the wood, one or all three pieces, are from the Colt era and are not sanded and/or refinished.

I don't know anything about the Thompson semi-automatic carbines, but I do know that cocking knob still looks much better than the original corn-cob type that is featured on many of the older West Hurley semi-auto carbines. What we need is someone to manufacture a Colt Style 1921 actuator with the pear shape between the cocking ears and with expansive knurling. Doug Richardson made a beautiful display 1921 style actuator with excellent knurling (although not a perfect match of the Colt era knurling). Unfortunately, Doug would not modify the original Colt era design so the cocking ears would not break off after repeated use. Maybe someone will copy Doug's design but strengthen the cocking ears. Hint, hint, hint...reconbob 😉

I believe this is an aftermarket product by GUNMACHINES.

Cort, I think it looks cool. Thank you for sharing. I look forward to seeing you and that NAC Thompson at the TCA Show & Shoot later this week. This will be another great event!

On a previous post you said the buffer pilot did not have a USGI manufacturer's mark and was probably a West Hurley product. Did you change that out before firing? Depending on the type of West Hurley buffer pilot you have, sometimes the flange will be loose on the shaft and cause issues. I am also curious if the actuator has a manufacturer's mark. Since you have taken the frame apart, check each part for a manufacture's part. I have heard the West Hurley Safety Levers will sometimes more around in the Sear and Sear levers and cause issues. If you're having functioning problems, these out of spec parts are the first thing to change out.

This Show & Shoot is a lot of fun with a bunch of great people. If you think you can make the Show or just the Shoot, reach out to Bill Troy (bt3_guns) or John Bosio (Got Uzi) or me. I would guess Bill and Carol Troy will let you pay at the door. If you want a table to display some of your treasures or have somethings to sell, I would reach out immediately. Tables are included with the price of admission.

The Moor, Great pictures. I really like the comparison to the RUSCO marked 5 cell magazine pouch. I looked at my MILLS 4 cell magazine pouch and agree the construction is similar if not identical to your unmarked 5 cell magazine pouch. Hopefully the seller will provide us information that we can use to research further. All good stuff!!!

Arthur, Great research. Thank you for the picture. Colt NO 11749 appears to be one of the 3000 Colt's shipped to the French government during World War II. Note what appears to be a Berthier rotating sling swivel attached to the vertical fore grip. Note the space between the loop of the sling swivel - see green arrow. Below is a close-up of a Berthier sling swivel from documented French Colt NO 10374, as pictured in my story about this French Colt in, A Thompson Compendium. NO 11749 fits perfectly in the known serial number range of these French Colt's. NO 11749 makes 25 I have identified. Not many from a shipment of 3000 guns! Again, great research. Thank you for sharing!

The Moor, I think it's great you started a new thread for what appears to be an unmarked one-of-a-kind magazine pouch. For those getting to this conversation late or in the future, see the below link that started this discussion. Scroll towards the end of the thread for the initial discussion of this magazine pouch. I like how you have found a picture of what appears to be an unmarked magazine pouch that Roger Cox has determined to be of RUSCO manufacture. I will admit it certainly looks like the magazine pouch you own. Unfortunately, it is unknown what criteria Roger used to determine it to be from RUSCO manufacturing, especially since it has the MILLS smooth outside magazine slot appearance. On Page 37, Cox pictured two five cell magazine pouches with pleated magazine slots that he calls "commercial." Those two look like the normal RUSCO magazine pouches with the pleated magazine slots. Like most of the pictures in Cox's book, he does not go into enough detail for us in 2025, i.e., are these "commercial" magazine pouches marked or unmarked? In 1982, it was all new and good; not today. See my story on the pictured "Canvas spare parts kit" on page 38 in, Thompson: Colt's, West Hurley's & More. Through sloppy writing or ignorance, Roger claimed this canvas spare parts kit was sold by Auto-Ordnance Corporation. In 1982, everyone believed him. Of course, nothing could be further from the truth. There has never been any documentation that Auto-Ordnance ever sold a canvas spare parts kit. As we all know now, this story spurred on an unscrupulous dealer from Pennsylvania to make and sell fake canvas spare part kits to many in the Thompson community. Like we discussed in the other thread, we need to know where this one-of-kind magazine pouch came from. It will be interesting to see if it was with a Thompson submachine gun Cox obtained and later sold. That is the data point I am looking for. It is a fact that the Mills Belt Company in the USA went out of business in 1930. It stands to reason that Auto-Ordnance had to find another manufacturer for their canvas products. We know from Auto-Ordnance catalogs that the Russell Manufacturing Company was ultimately chosen. What we don't know is if Auto-Ordnance approached other canvas manufacturers in the 1930s. Is it possible your one-of-a-kind magazine pouch was a sample product submitted to Auto-Ordnance by another canvas manufacturer? Whatever the ultimate story, I do find it an interesting magazine pouch.