TD.

Ricky, Here is a link to a previous discussion on the Terrell hardcases. Shown below is the Terrell advertisement posted in the above link by long time forum member Bill Menosky (aut-ord-co). I have never seen a Terrell hardcase with a piano hinge in back and no front locking latch. It appears Mr. Terrell made these hardcases in many different variations. I still use mine today. All good stuff!!!

Ricky, I believe this is a James G. Terrell hardcase. If so, it is an older reproduction but a very sturdy and durable hardcase. Does the center latch have a small circle on top with a jet with contrails inside? Does the inside of the lid have two clips on the far right side? If so, you have a great hardcase for a 1928AC Thompson submachine gun. I have never seen a James G. Terrell hardcase with that type of fabric lining in the interior. Very interesting.

MrBill, Blanksguy and Lewisfan are right on point. 25K to 35K (Savage Commercial in nice condition) is the correct price range without seeing pictures. Original finish in good condition and matching receiver and frame will bring the highest price. An early Savage with a New York address in nice condition is a big plus. Once you hit 30K plus with a World War II Thompson submachine gun, you have to have something special. My opinion. Others may have other ideas. Post some pictures.

I would not want to spend anywhere close to $500 for an Auto-Ordnance West Hurley C drum. The great majority of these drums do not work, and the workmanship is not very good. On many, the rails are not correct and will remove the finish from a Thompson around the drum slots. The C drums manufactured in Tawain and sold by the Gun Parts Corporation (formerly Numrich Arms) do work and are usually priced between $400 and $500. They also come with an inspection period and can be returned if not satisfied. You still need to do the pre-shooting checks like making sure there are no tight spots in the rails (very easy to correct) by running a cartridge through the rails and add a bit of lubricant inside the drum body (l like graphite). I have included the link, below. Drum Magazine, .45 ACP, 100 Round, Blued (Aftermarket) (gunpartscorp.com)

Lawman9328, It is a first for me! Thank you for sharing. When the Model 1928 West Hurley Thompson was placed in production in 1975, there appeared to be an ample supply of Thompson parts in the marketplace. As Auto-Ordnance at West Hurley (AOC WH) manufactured more and more guns, supplies quickly dwindled and AOC WH had to started manufacturing many of the Thompson internal parts. This manufacturing included several different variations of actuators. Perhaps the actuators featured by motorgun and Lawman9328 were not built as fakes but constructed by or for Thompson owners with available parts and pieces in an attempt to make a working actuator. Most members on this forum remember when the "Russian" parts kits became available; we were awash with Thompson parts for many years. That was not the case between 1975 and 1986. The shortage of Thompson parts was so profound by 1985 that AOC WH had to manufacture M1A1 bolts (and like the actuators, all junk). It is just a thought. All opinions are welcome.

PM sent. I cover GunMachines in my book, Thompson: Colt's, West Hurley's & More. I am always looking for additional information. Thanks for posting.

motorcar, Thank you for the kind words about my Amateur's Guide book. It is one of my best sellers. The last original Colt Navy two-piece actuator I saw for sale was in the $3000 price range. I would guess the price is not any lower today. Finding one for sale of any variation is the problem. During my research I have encountered many Colt Navy Thompson submachine guns with WWII USGI actuators. Most of the owners were told and believed they had purchased a Colt in all original condition. The Amateur's Guide book and now A Colt Thompson Buyer and Collectors Guide have made much more informed buyers. I have made note of your unusual actuator. Perhaps another one will turn up one day. As of now, I consider it an excellent display piece. Thank you for sharing. The Thompson forum is one of the best places on the Internet. Speaking of display pieces, I wonder if PK. can fix this....🙂

Bob, After reading your post I was certain I had seen some Philadelphia Police Department Colts in civilian hands. A review of Gordon Herigstad's 6th Edition found the additional serial numbers for Philadelphia PD: NO 4339 - transferable - I have pictures NO 4946 - transferable - a Roger Cox (LEO) gun - I have pictures NO 5802 - unknown status - no civilian history - Philadelphia County Prison, Holmesburg, PA NO 6924 - unknown status - no civilian history NO 7068 - unknown status - no civilian history - Philadelphia County Prison, Holmesburg, PA NO 7315 - transferable - Philadelphia County Prison, Holmesburg, PA NO 8450 - transferable - a Roger Cox (LEO) gun - I have pictures - Philadelphia County Prison, Holmesburg, PA Gordon also attributed NO 10538 to the Philadelphia PD and the Philadelphia County Prison in Holmesburg, PA. I have no information of how the prison Colt's ended up at the police department or vice-versa. Or if it happened at all. Perhaps, this is something you could ask your former PD officer. I would guess he is familiar with the Holmesburg prison. It appears to me that Roger Cox was able to obtain a few registered Colt's from Philadelphia. I always find it interesting when some Colts at a police department or prison are registered and some not. Any chance poor record keeping by the IRS could be the answer? I also do not know where Gordon obtained all of his information. Thanks Bob. All good stuff!!!

This may be what NO 5382 looked like before PK. performed his magic.

Additional information: I see an indication on the pictures I have NO 5382 may also be a former USMC Colt Thompson.

It is a Pre-May Sales Sample with a mis-matched frame that reportedly has been refinished/restored by PK. at Diamond K Companies. It was imported by ARMEX Corporation in California.

motorcar, Thanks for the additional pictures. PK., Speaking of people that have the skill set to make an actuator like pictured above! I believe I see what you are talking about. Since the publication of my Amateur's Guide book in 2019, I have found the radius you reference is easily observable in the early 1921 manufactured Colt era actuators (and those converted to the 28 two-piece actuators). However, original 1921 actuators found in later guns, the radius can appear much more rounded and not as definable (especially in pictures). I also believe heavy use of an actuator can cause wear in this area that makes this radius in later manufactured actuators almost disappear. The earliest Colt actuators with the very long straight radius in front (see page 175 in Amateur's Guide and page 30 in Buyer & Collectors Guide) is the actuator that garners the most attention, especially for those with early Colt guns with the square actuator slot in front. The pear shape between the cocking ears and the expansive knurling on the sides of the cocking ears are the first areas I look at. For the two-piece 28 Navy actuators, I also look for the lack of finish at the top of the actuator body. These points can be viewed without field stripping the gun. As an aside, I have seen original 28 Navy two-piece actuators that have been totally re-blued. Original yes, original condition, no. Is the actuator owned by motorcar an original Colt era actuator? Not in my opinion. But I am very open minded. Let another example turn up in an original unmolested Colt Navy Thompson (instead of a box of Thompson spare parts) and I will rethink my opinion. Exceptions are the rule with the Colt production guns. All good stuff!!!

The Colt era Y marked actuators are one-piece. And the knurling covers a lot more area on the cocking ears. What gave me an immediate pause is the top of the actuator body. Original Colt era two-piece actuators have a 'bright' or 'in the white' actuator top. This sometimes allows the top of the rivets to be seen through the actuator slot on a Thompson gun. Of course, the pear shape between the cocking ears is a must. Unless more copies of this unique actuator turn up, I believe it is most likely a cut down WWII knurled actuator that someone added the weight from a broken Colt era two-piece actuator. I have seen a number of Colt era two-piece actuators with broken cocking ears over the years. I have one on my bench that broke in the Blish lock slot so I know the weighted parts to make the above actuator are available. I will say that the craftmanship on this actuator appears very good. There are some on this forum with the skills to make this actuator with the right parts. It could easily fool many Thompson owners that do not study the conversion parts of the Colt era Model of 1928 Thompson submachine gun. Thank you for sharing. I look forward to reading other opinions or thoughts about this actuator.

I was reading parts of this book today. This World War II history of the Thompson submachine gun and Reising submachine gun are forever linked! I cannot emphasize enough how great this book is. A must have for the Reising owner. Or any firearms enthusiast.

TactAdv, I am pretty sure Bob is still in business. I would guess he is out of the country and will respond to you in the near future.

JBabb, I don't think I have ever seen what appears to be an older FBI style hardcase (Colt era???) with a piano hinge. There is little doubt this hardcase came out of police department! Hopefully, our knowledgeable members on this subject will reply. Thank you for sharing. Regarding, The Road to Perdition:

The World War II Thompson guns are not my specialty, but I am pretty sure Auto-Ordnance Bridgeport (AOB) did not manufacture barrels. I would guess AOB used Savage and other subcontractor parts to some extent throughout the 1928 and M1/M1/A1 production.

Chuck, +1 for your post. I was pretty sure this was the J. Curtis Earl collection or inventory. After writing the story for Small Arms Review (SAR) magazine about his catalogs, I knew I had seen those pegboards previously. The Earl catalogs were informative and entertaining at a time there was not much material on the Thompson guns and many other machine guns. My story is in the SAR 4th Quarter issue, Vol. 16 No. 4.

Thanks for sharing! Love that Colt Monitor!

I agree with Chip and reconbob. It is a damaged bolt that should not be used. However, it still has some value for those building display guns.

The hammer price for NO 103 at the September 10, 2024 auction was $26,000. Of note, NO 103 was also listed in the earlier May 8th auction and hammered at $30,000. I guess it did not meet the reserve and was re-listed. It will be interesting to see if it met the reserve at this auction. It was a former coal company Colt and there was a barrel issue. The below picture shows the condition. I like NO 103 but understand the prices received at auction.

PM sent.

Notwithstanding Doug Richardson's post. I believe PK is correct about the Colt era and Model of 1928 milled grip mounts all having a bend. The original contract between Auto-Ordnance and Savage Arms called for the Savage guns to manufacture Thompson guns "exactly as it appeared in the 1936 Catalog." The early Savage Commercials (collector term) certainly show this to be true. Could this have changed late in the production of the 1928 Thompson with the milled grip mounts? I seriously doubt it.

Rabbit57, I know for a fact Savage manufactured grip mounts. The first contract between Auto-Ordnance and Savage Arms was for 10,000 guns. For many months after signing that first contract, there was no indication any future contracts would be forthcoming. Based on what I have seen on the earliest Savage Arms Thompson guns, all the parts except the Lyman rear sight and Cutts compensator were manufactured by Savage Arms. This made perfect sense as Savage Arms did not need subcontractors for a 10,000 gun order. As we all know, future contracts did happen. However, the second contract was but for a modest additional 2000 guns. The third order of 26,250 guns opened the flood gates with many more orders on the way - see Great Britain - The Tommy Gun Story for additional information. It is at this point I believe Savage Arms reached out to subcontractors, whose sister company of Stevens Arms being first in line. Many more subcontractors were to follow including the Auto-Ordnance factory at Bridgeport (AOB) making their own Thompson guns and parts. I have owned and sold a lot of Stevens and Auto-Ordnance marked milled grip mounts over the years. I have never seen an "S" or Savage marked grip mount for sale (only mounted on the earliest Savage guns). The M1 series of Thompson guns is not my specialty (that is Frank's lane) but I strongly suspect there were no M1 Thompson submachine guns that left the two factories with Savage milled grip mounts. I encourage the members of this forum to speak out if my assumption is incorrect. I have seen Savage or "S" marked front sights. Savage Arms had a head start in the design of the M1 front sight with the small production run of 1928A or no compensator Savage Model of 1928 submachine guns in 1940. Of note, these early front sights by Savage for the 1928 model are unmarked. With Stevens and AOC also both making front sights for the M1 Thompson, I have to wonder how common Savage marked M1 front sights are. If me, I would want to find several original examples of M1/M1A1 Thompson guns with Savage front sights before engaging in your search. I believe you will find the Stevens and AOC marked front sights are much more common. Again, I encourage the members of this forum to speak out if my assumption is incorrect. All good stuff!!!

I have had a few requests for, A Thompson Compendium, of late so I am bringing this thread back to the top. I appreciate all the interest in my books. I do have books available.