Black River Militaria CII

Oiler from UD42 in my possession, previously owned by Berkeley Police Dept. Berkeley, WVA Hand engraved in small letters in receiver at receiver/stock joint: WPD W 13 Remains of a decal that had the PD details are on the stock The Thompson oilers are almost twice as long as the UD oilers. Both sides of body are impressed with oval. Body is 2 1/8" long; cap is 1 5/8" long. Width is1" Thickness is 1/2' Body is non-magnetic so is nickel. Oval bottom is recessed Top edge of bottom stamped: PAT'D APRIL 22 '05 Center stamped in larger font: MADE IN U S ABottom edge stamped: PAT'D APRIL 6 97

Amend the above post about Lomont's 1915s: the guns were apparently registered but were in various states of disrepair and perhaps DEWATS, etc and, Lomont did whatever work was necessary to put them back in good functional condition. FWIW

The barrel has an MP40 front sight block with the MP40 muzzle nut. The MP38 had a front sight mount with the fitting for the spring loaded muzzle cap. So, it is not a complete MP38 kit.

The C+R MG42s that I have seen on the market over the last five years or so including the couple that I have reactivated for customers who acquired them during that time, have been in good shooter grade condition but certainly not "collector" grade condition. The values have risen significantly for such "average" condition guns and buyer's are paying between $40-50K for these examples. I have watched a couple such 42s that sell in that range in the last few weeks. I have two customers looking for C+R 42s and willing to pay into the mid $40k for a decent shooter grade example. A well crafted and finished, welded transferable MG42 is far more acceptable now than years ago for good money given the dilution of the condition of the C+R guns offered at high and ever rising values. Reman MG42s on the market are fairly scarce, in my experience, so that adds a bit of a premium simply because a welded gun can be bought at a discount to current prices of vintage guns. In my view, without seeing the gun, but understanding that cosmetically it remains not fully restored, the value is in the $35K plus range. Remember you are really buying the "transferable" paperwork. The welded MG34 is in a similar situation as the 42 as far as C+R examples reaching new heights in value. But, I don"t think welded examples have an equivalent premium simply because the 34s are nowhere near as popular as 42s. I don't have a feel for the number of welded registered MG34s in the NFRTR but the ones I have seen were all done by cutting a part of the receiver that was the most easily repaired. A common ploy used by shops/individuals with marginal welding and fitting skills. I recall that the cosmetics were usually only fair with a couple of them reblued but others just leaving the weld ground back and in the white seemed to be the mode. The 34s don't have the appeal of the 42s so a welded example has less value in comparison, in my view. Assessing the value of the MG34 is more difficult but I'd say it might be worth $20-25K. FWIW

Is this Sten registered under ATF/NFA regs? Curious.

I have a Costa Rican 7mm example as well as a 6.5 and will check to see the fit of the 6.5 barrel in the 7mm receiver. The rule of thumb with receivers built for a barrel of one caliber that can also accept barrels of a different caliber, is that the the different caliber barrel will not headspace correctly or actually lock in place. This prevents the different caliber barrel from actually being able to fire a round.

I've had a working relationship with Ruben for a few years repairing his MGs and he is certainly honest and upfront. Regardless of how you chose to handle the transaction Ruben will treat you right. All up front or 50/50 and other arrangements have worked for many, many years. There are anomalies now and then but 99% + of these transactions are completed to the satisfaction of the participants. FWIW

"Many of these have found their way to civilian hands. The AL markings, while not common, are definitely not rare." Well, being pre-May sales samples, they are ineligible for transfer to "civilians", meaning private individuals, so circulate among FFL licensees, with some still in police departments, and possibly other official government agencies, etc. I'd guess that most of them have been sold by PDs to raise funds for police needs. FWIW

MGs with an Interarms, Alexandria, Va stamp are pre-May sales samples, imported between 1968 and 1986, with transfer restricted to dealers only. After the '68 Amnesty and the GCA, all live MGs imported had to be stamped by the importer and were registered as dealer restricted sales samples. Pre-May samples can be retained by a dealer after he gives up his FFL/SOT. FWIW

Just got the same response to my inquiry.......

How did the grips get so worn on a 1911 with such a clean, new park finish? i have some 1911s that at least look like they were used at Iwo Jima.......

Currently have a selectfire Bushmaster in my inventory. Certainly a no frills, all function firearm. Puts out an impressive muzzle blast, too.

Sterling mags were not crinkle coated in my experience. Original finishes are very durable, commercial or mil spec.

You laugh and mock the misfortune of others, but sadly, crooked dealers have sold MGs on their books that did not belong to them. This has happened with MGs in estates where a co-owner in a gun business with an SOT passed away and the other co-owner sold the MGs on their books that belonged to the deceased. Also know of several situations where a transferee waiting on an approval passed away and the dealer sold the MG without the knowledge of the family. This info is anecdotal and we know about it because the executors of the dead transferees followed up on the thefts, but the co-owner thief got away with it. I knew the co-owner whose MGs were stolen by his former business partner. This was many years ago but there have been another example or two since. Lesson to be learned. FWIW

A minor correction: Registration under BATF+E/NFA regulations does not confer ownership. ATF has no authority concerning ownership of registered NFA. An SOT to whom a transferring MG is registered does not "own" the MG. He is only the registrant. Ownership is conferred by payment for the purchase the MG. The person to whom the MG was sold, bequeathed, or otherwise is designated the "owner" through specific payment or legal documentation does not lose ownership when the MG temporarily transfers to an SOT in his state of residence for subsequent transfer to him. FWIW

What did they hammer at?

If I recall correctly, Walter Newman, who worked for Cranmer at IMA for many years as his buyer for import into the US, told me years ago that IMA had those stock/bayonet combos made up for them in India for retail sales. Early on IMA did not mark their repro products.

The sight mounted on the BMG pictured above is interesting since it is calibrated to 2400 yds whereas the Benet-Mercie sight goes out to 2600. Although I am not positive, and I'll go out on a limb here, I believe that neither the Colt or Springfield versions of the auto rifle were made in any other caliber than .30-06. So, in my opinion, that shorter range sight was not made for the Benet-Mercie guns. FWIW

Here's some pics of sights and types mounts. Delving into the details of these sights is new to me and this thread has prompted me to make some comparisons and find out more about the odd Benet-Mercie sights. Jeff's comment is correct to the extent that the BMG sight leaf will fit onto the Benet sight leaf mount, but the BMG leaf was never assembled on the guns that had the specific style of leaf mount that put the windage knob on the forward left of the receiver sight mount mount. Also, the thread on the Benet-Mercie type of windage knob and leaf base is different than the windage knob thread on the BMG leaf mount and base which is just a noteworthy difference since the BMG leaf base cannot fit the Benet receiver mount. The windage threads on the BMG leaf mount are in the wrong end of the mount. First pic is of the rear sight on the 1915 Colt Vickers. It is the same sight that was used on the Benet-Mercie and the Colt commercial digger. The windage knob is located forward left on the leaf mount. Second pic shows the Benet-Mercie leaf on left and BMG leaf on right. Very different lengths is the obvious difference but there are other minor differences. Third pic shows the leaf mounts with shorter Benet-Mercie mount on left and longer BMG on right. Fourth pic shows the three parts of the Benet-Mercie rear sight with receiver sight base mount on left, leaf mount center and leaf on right. So, the three specific MGs that used the shorter .30-06 sight leaf with the windage adjustment knob located on the forward left of the rear sight mount appear to be the Benet-Mercie auto rifles, both makes, the Colt commercial 1914 digger and the Colt 1915 Vickers. FWIW

Good luck with John and the Beretta at that price. Not a snowball's chance it will be sold for $17k. No doubt he has been offered a lot more since he posted that ad and he will hold out for the highest bidder. John is an acquaintance of mine from many years ago when he first arrived on the MG scene at KC and he had a very interesting MG with him on which he had a very high price and was looking for more. It was a WWI German Parabellum aircraft gun, missing the lock, that he valued at that time for about twice what it was worth. I recently had that same gun in the shop from the friend of mine who bought it at auction and paid a worthy price for it but it needed quite a bit of work to straighten it out, literally. I talked with John about that gun and he was not at all happy with the auction price. I doubt this Beretta will be sold on the usual internet market if the offers aren't a lot higher. The gun will probably go to auction. The recent auction hammer price has ruined the market for Berettas for a while. FWIW

The Chinese Thompsons have intrigued me for years. I have a few of the Shansei M17 .45 Broomhandles which I have always liked to shoot. Also the Chinese Inglis Bren. There are at least a couple Chinese made Thompsons in the NFRTR, one of which was at KC about eight or ten years ago. I had the chance to take it apart and look it over and it was certainly an excellent gun. I think it sold for $75k. Not sure if the same one showed up at auction some years later, or if the auction example was a second one. Never came across one many, many years ago which would have been way less bucks at the time. FWIW

There are a couple at least of the Vickers MkVII MGs in the NFRTR. They are the early WWII .303 tank MG armament for Brit armor. Some years back there was an example at Knob Creek which came out of one of the movie rental outfits and with which I spent some time fooling around. Quite an "ugly duckling" but well refined to its purpose. There are a few of the Monotype Brens in the NFRTR as well, but they don't have the charisma of the Enfield and Inglis guns for collectors in the US. FWIW

I'll go with a pair of peglegs for the pirate!! Can't beat that.....

Thanks m3bobby for your interesting contribution. Back in the day when Brens were cheap, really a long, long time ago, I acquired an ED MKI* that went to New Zealand and was so marked, a couple ED MKIIs, an Inglis MKI and an Inglis Chinese Contract MKII. Still have an ED MkII and the Chinese MkII. Also acquired a Czech ZB 39 in .303, allegedly a South African contract gun with matching barrel and correct .303 mag, which goes a long way to confirm it's factory provenance. Herb Woodend, former Pattern Room dignitary, visited me at one time when in the states, looked it over and claimed that he'd never seen the variant before but decided that it was SA contract. FWIW

How'd they get that guy in there?? Must have hoisted him in......