hawk Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 I am looking for information on the value of a Thompson L Drum I have. It is stamped: Auto-Ordnance Corp. New York N.Y. U.S.A. Patented July 27 1920 Dec. 7 1920 The winding side says: Magazine Type "L" Thompson Submachine Gun 50 Cartridges Cal 45 For 1921 Model Wind to 11 Clicks For 1928 Model Wind to 9 Clicks Can someone tell me what its value is. I can supply pictures if necessary. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawksnest Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 Pictures would absolutely help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gijive Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 Hi, The drum is more than likely a mid-thirties production Worcester Press made drum for the Colt Thompsons. Post some pictures and we can definitely help you with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawk Posted January 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 I'll post some pictures later today. Thank You!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawk Posted January 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 Here are the pictures of the drum. Any help with approximate value is appreciated. http://img6.photobucket.com/albums/v19/hawkey/drum5.jpg http://img6.photobucket.com/albums/v19/hawkey/drum1.jpg http://img6.photobucket.com/albums/v19/hawkey/drum2.jpg http://img6.photobucket.com/albums/v19/hawkey/drum3.jpg http://img6.photobucket.com/albums/v19/hawkey/drum4.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 Hawk You may want to do a search and see an earlier extensive discussion on on this subject. Search Subject Drum and Member Sig (any time period) or try this link if it works. drum discussion My impression is this is a Colt based with the comma after the N.Y., being my guide. The rotor looks kinda dark in the picture it should be nickel type finish not black to be original. The Worcester drums noted New York, N.Y. where Colt had New York N.Y., from what I see in Doug Richardson's book on the subject. Colt drums should have a nickel internal rotor where Worcester's were black oxide finished. I claim to be no expert your mileage may vary! Seriously take a lot of opinions on this subject not just mine please if you are thinking of buying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Appears to be third model Colt L drum with a Worcester rotor (non nickel plated). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter63a Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 That drum looks very similar to the one I sold, not too long ago, for $1000.00 (believing it to be a Worcester Pess model). I now think that mine was either an early (mid-thirties production) Worcester drum or a Colt. Yours definately looks to have the nickel rotor, which would tend to indicate it to be an early Worcester or a Colt. I think I noticed spot welds on the back cover. This would indicate that the back cover, at least, is probably a Colt drum part. All Thompson drum parts are interchangeable and over the last 70-80 years, they have been mixed and matched. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/blink.gif Your drum looks to be in original condition (no paint, parkerizing, etc), which is always good. Well, that's my two pennies worth. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/blink.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/cool.gif Good Luck! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif Regards, Walter PS: On second inspection, I see that there are spot welds on both front and back covers, indicating Colt lineage. It appears to be a nice drum! I'd venture to put a price of $2,000-$2,300 on this drum. Also, you might want to get some differently angled shots of the internals to reduce the glare and clearly show that it is, indeed, a Nickel rotor. Arthur, I think you are right, about this Drum, because of the spot welds (went back and checked the old discussion) and the "5," from".45" is under the "g." Note: There does, however, appear to be some difference of opinion about the spot welds, whether they indicate Worcester or Colt, between Tracie Hill and Doug Richardson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 I believe only the three type Colt drums had nickel rotors. The Colt drums are supposed to have the two faint "spot welds" above the slide markings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 I understand Spot welds are very pronounced on Worcester drums BUT Colt drums still have spot welds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawk Posted January 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Closer photos of drum. I believe it is a nickle rotor, from what you members say about Colt manufacture, I think you are correct from what I see. Do these photos offer any more help or change of mind about the manufacturer. I bought this drum 5-6 years ago for $500. Thanks again. http://img6.photobucket.com/albums/v19/hawkey/drum1a.jpg http://img6.photobucket.com/albums/v19/hawkey/drum2a.jpg http://img6.photobucket.com/albums/v19/hawkey/drum3a.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter63a Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 hawk, no, it does not change my opinion. Unless you need the money, I would hang on to that drum! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif Regards, Walter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 You might want to polish the rotor out to insure it is nickel. Many Colt drums have had their nickel rotors swapped for black oxide Worcester ones. I have a low three digit numbered Colt L drum with the faint rivets on the back cover. I can't imagine how Hill and Richardson could be at odds about whether these "spot welds" indicate Colt from Worcester. All they need to do is look at their own Colt drums and compare to Worcester drums. Surely each expert has their own swelling collection to be definitive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Jr Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Since its from the "Colt" era, I could offer $400 for it. Jr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter63a Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 hawk, I don't know what Arthur is refering to, regarding 'polishing', but, don't polish off what patina is there. That could be very costly, similar to refinishing an 18th. century Boston Highboy, if you know what I mean. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/blink.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawk Posted January 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Art and Walter, I sure appreciate your input. Obviously, you gents know much more about these drums than I do. Am I right in thinking this is a thrid generation Colt drum? I have no intention of selling it, I was just curious as to what it could be worth today. I still run it in my 1928A-1. I agree, Walter, with not polishing the rotor. I generally keep things as they came to me. Thanks again for your help. Have a happy and prosperous New Year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter63a Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 hawk, no, I think you have a genuine Colt Drum (Arthur, eat your heart out)! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/blink.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/tongue.gif You have the best of the Thompson drums. Actually, any of the drums made prior to 1946 are very desirable. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/cool.gif Regards, Walter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 hawk, If you were to polish the rotor, you would not be compromising its originality, you would merely be revealing the actual nickel, if that's what is underneath. This is not a patina issue, since the component resides inside the drum, and is part of the drum's mechanical function. Polishing, or restoring the luster of a Colt nickel bolt, or Navy actuator cannot impact value. This is not comparable to refinishing the Colt stocks and grips that have accumulated all the character from being exposed to the different people handling the weapon over the last 80+ years. John Jr, $400 will get you a slightly dented WH drum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter63a Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Well, thanks for the clarification, Arthur. But, I still would not refinish the rotor! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/blink.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/laugh.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Walter, A refinish implies replacing an original finish with another. Cleaning a piece of metal to reveal the original finish (in this case bright nickel) is just that. Since they apply that method to the Sistine Chapel, I doubt John T. himself would balk at it being applied to his namesake weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter63a Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 I have no problem with cleaning to the original finish, Arthur. However, I would err on the side of caution! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/blink.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/laugh.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Crow Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Hawk, I have what has been identified as a Worcester drum identical to yours. The only difference is that your drum is a little cleaner. Mine has a small amount of pitting on the top. I gave $1,100.00 for mine last summer. The rotor is a high blue in appearance. . It functions flawlessly, I put 50 through it and put it away after oiling it well. In the future I would like to get an AO drum as a shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMG28 Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Hawk, I will check my texts this evening and compare the lettering to determine which vintage drum this is. Font, punctuation, etc. differ on the various drums. My guess without checking is that this is a 4th generation drum, the first one made by Worcester Press in the 1930's. The 4th gen drums still had the nickel rotor. The 5th gen Worcester and later drums all had blued rotors. From your pictures, the rotor appears to be nickel. Based on what I have been told by others, a nice 4th gen drum now fetches beween $1200 and $1500, though as Sig said, your mileage may vary. I would not alter this drum in any way. Keep it and enjoy it! Walter, The drum you sold to me in May of 2003 was also a 4th generation made by Worcester. That was confirmed both from Doug Richardson's book and by Tracie Hill. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Roger, Walter may have sold you a Worcester drum, but what Hawk has is a non-numbered, non NO: marked, third version of the Colt L drum. The nickel rotors stopped with the Colt drums. A 4th "generation" drum would be a WH drum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter63a Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Thanks, Roger, I really was not positive! I hope you are enjoying it! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif Best Regards, Walter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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