TD. Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Bert, Thank you for posting pictures. It looks like a very nice Colt Thompson. I can't wait to see the rest of it! It has the early fire select markings, not unexpected given the serial number. You can also tell where someone(s), probably at the police department, was prying around the pivot plate without the proper tools. These scratches are very common on police department Thompson's. The oiler is definitely a WWII oiler. However, it appears to be a nice one. WWII oilers in this condition are getting harder to find so it is a keeper (or good trading material). Be sure and try to get as many of the older ATF Forms as you can. You know who you purchased it from and they know who they purchased it from and hopefully, that owner knows who they purchased it from. If your lucky, it will not have had too many prior owners and you will be able to document a complete history of this gun. Let me know when the transfer is complete and I will get you started with a FOIA letter. I can also contact Gordon for you if he does not see your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Posted November 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Once again TD. thank you very much for all the information you have provided and once the transfer is complete I will definitely contact you for FOIA guidance and submit pictures! Unfortunately, as you noted, there are a few scratches on / near the pivot plate, but I suppose that gives the gun its character and history. Other than the scratches, the rest of the gun, from what I remember, is in decent shape. Good to know about the oiler being incorrect, I will begin my search for a correct one. Therefore, if anyone on the board has a correct, excellent condition oiler, please let me know, for I am willing to trade and / or purchase. As for the previous ATF Forms, unfortunately the dealer I purchased the weapon from states the previous owner wants to remain anonymous. Not sure why, but with that, has basically ended my search until I can proceed with the FOIA. I will continue to work with the dealer on obtaining at least the information of the owner prior to the previous owner, but doubt any information will be provided. Thanks again, Bert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 (edited) Darryl, Is your Colt #1578 a Navy Over stamp, it sounds like a low number for a Navy? Yes, on the receiver it is stamped Navy and has been over stamped with the "8". I’m glad that you ask, for one of my friends who also collects Colt Thompsons thought #1578 was low for a Navy and has never seen a lower Navy serial number. Board, what is the lowest Navy serial number that you come across? Thanks, Bert There was a thread about low serial numbered Colt Navy TSMG's but it was deleted by a mod. Anyway, #525 became a Colt Navy. As G.I. Jive stated, any Colt 1921 TSMG could become a Colt Navy either as shipped from AOC or sent back by the owner for the upgrade after 1928. #1578 was advertised for $5500 back in October, 1991 in Shotgun News. The condition was described as 93% "Actuator wear: Light" "Few light marks lower receiver." Interesting to see pics of this TSMG to gage the now defunct F.J. Vollmer's accuracy in ratings. Edited November 15, 2009 by Arthur Fliegenheimer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Posted November 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 WOW, Thank You Arthur! Well, needless to say I didn't pay $5,500 for it, and as for 93%, I'm just not trained well enough to say. As soon as I have the entire gun, I plan to post many detailed pics and will ask the experts within the board to help determine the condition. With that, is there anyone between the Houston, TX to New Orleans, LA (Interstate 10) area that would be a good judge on % condition for the wood and metal? If so, I would love to entertain a viewing in order to get a better perspective on condition. Thanks, Bert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Bert looks like a nice one for it being your first Thompson.{ since mine was a 70% 21a browned and worn.but then again it only cost me $900.00 at the time. i graded this gun for Fred back when. and told him it was below 90% range. with original part's.and passed on buying it at the time for the price. since he had many more much nicer> but for more money< if you grabbed it up for below $20,000.00 i guess in the current climate you did okay. everyday as i age. i spend less and less on guns,and more on Arizona Tea. enjoy the "Navy"and you won't have any problems with oiler's.i have had as many as two dozen at one time. Why? because they are a neat little item. now a days, just more time. regards Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Posted November 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 (edited) Ron, If I understood you correctly, you graded my Colt 1928 in the past (Serial No. 1578), is that correct? If so when; that is, what year and who was the owner at the time? Also, you mentioned Fred, who is he? I purchased this weapon from a Dealer in Houston who represented the sell who lived on the West Coast (that's what the dealer told me); seller remains anonymous, therefore, I don't know his name. Based on the price you stated, it sounds like you know this gun and its previous owner(s). Any more information you can provide regarding previous owners is much appreciated. Thanks, Bert Edited July 18, 2010 by Bert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merry Ploughboy Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 FWIW, I used to have a 21/28 Navy that, according to the Cox, Hill, and Herigstadt books had been originally sold to a PD in the 30's, and when I made a FOIA request, the information I received (which had a lot of blacked out lines) did not go back chronologically beyond the PD Amnesty Registration in 1968. What you get from the BATFE is no more than what they have in the files, and maybe less. Best of luck and enjoy you Thompson! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD. Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 MerryPloughboy, That is not an uncommon occurrence. What happened is the Police Department obtained the gun, often times before registration was required, and were smart enough to register it at the last minute during the 1968 30 day amnesty period. Unfortunately, many police department unregistered Thompson's were not registered during this last chance amnesty period. Hence, the number of Colt Thompson part kits that have surfaced over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Bert you can always e-mail me, since the last few times i gave info on some guns on the board,{ i had some pain problem's.}from those that did not want the info out there. or did not know i had seen a particular gun before they did>{ to say the least enhanced}with wood or different parts. the "Thompson world"has changed alot in the past 10 to 15 year's..........sometimes you think you are helping somebody and it comes back to bite you, from somebodies ruined sale.or you turned them on to a better gun. Fred Vollmer was a good guy.{ he denied designing the mp-40 tho}and i did countless deals with him. and in the old days it was nice to go into the back room and gaze at fifty tommies in the rack..and be broke about ten minutes later after picking some out to buy! just like the J.Curtis Earl and Roger Cox experience. those days today are long over for any seller of Thompson's. at most some may have three or four gun's to move at any one time. I know about three different people who are sitting on over 20 each{ if not more right now}but no intention of selling them. those take it to the grave folk. I'm glad you picked up a early Navy with New York history as your first.{ mine had a little Chi-town history.} now reblued and long sold off. well you heard enuff ya-da ya-da from me on the subject. and when the members see my name here. they go oh F>>>>>> not him again. if you plan on attending s.a.r. show in phx this year let me know.since Gordon may owe me coffee and rolls this year.I will be hanging around there. No table this year. best regards Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newtommygunner Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 bert, empty your in box, I've got a message for u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 (edited) newtommygunner; Done. Thanks, Bert Edited November 17, 2009 by Bert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAS1921AC Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 "and when the members see my name here. they go oh F>>>>>> not him again." Not all members......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 yep I guess it was when i moderated for that short period in history.{ however the world is a much better place.} Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ltcboy Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 http://www.gunshowbooks.com/cgi-bin/webc.e...prodid=GS407524 Bert- This is the cheapest I have seen this book on the web. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAS1921AC Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 I've dealt with this gentleman before. I was looking for American Thunder after American Thunder II came out and contacted him. He was going to a show but pulled his last copy out for me. Really nice fellow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Posted November 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 Mike (Ltcboy), Thanks! I will contact them tomorrow and place an order. Thanks again, Bert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hammer Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 This gun is now for sale on the Sturm. board for 24K after being purchased this past winter for less than 20K. So much for "keeping this gun forever" Mike Hammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted July 21, 2010 Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 I wonder if it was one of the guns Vollmer had for sale at Knob Creek that year 1991, because I was there. I remember about five or so guns they had, all for about $4-5,000. Not having that kind of money, I didn't try to buy one. Darn it. I grew up in New Rochelle, NY. And I'd have loved to have owned that gun, if for no other reason than that it had been owned by my hometown police department. Oh well. I enjoyed reading over this thread from last November, even though the pictures were deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billie32 Posted July 21, 2010 Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 if you're still looking for a correct Colt oiler, I've got one, although the spout is a little smushed on one side. It would be a difficult fix, but it is a real one. Would need $125 shipped for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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