Black Dog 22 Conversion Kit

[Paul in PA]

Now that it has been a few weeks, what are people's opinions on the Black Dog 22 conversion kit for the Thompson?

 

Read the initial posts, they were positive. So what are folks feelings, thumb's up or down.

 

Burned by Ceiner, don't want to repeat that mistake. Sorry Merle, you have a fantastic reputation.

 

Paul in PA

[photonance]

Now that it has been a few weeks, what are people's opinions on the Black Dog 22 conversion kit for the Thompson?

 

Read the initial posts, they were positive. So what are folks feelings, thumb's up or down.

 

Burned by Ceiner, don't want to repeat that mistake. Sorry Merle, you have a fantastic reputation.

 

Paul in PA

 

My experience started out not so well, but ended very well. I received the kit, installed the bolt, and it would not fit correctly in the receiver. I explained my problem to Merle, sent the bolt to him, and he fixed it (no charge)and tested it in his gun. I received the kit back and it fit perfectly, and recently got to test it with the 30 round magazines, as well as the BDM PPS50 drum with an adapter that was produced by Deerslayer. I used blazer ammo, and the kit functioned flawlessly with the drum and the 30 round magazines. In my opinion, it is well worth the purchase, and it is awfully fun to shoot. The ammo cost savings is also a definite plus!

 

Rob

Edited April 28, 2010 by photonance

[Matt in Pdx]

Paul,

 

I give it two thumbs up!!!! The kit is great in my opinion and added a whole new dimension to owning a Thompson.

 

I ended up with one of the prototypes that Merle tested. I have 2000 plus rounds through it in my 28 Savage. It is ammo sensitive as has been discussed. It also has become more reliable with use. The last time I had it out, I put 700 rounds of Federal bulk pack through it. I had one jam after about 500 rounds when a case would not extract. After I knocked it out, cleaned the chamber it was good for another 200 rounds before my fingers got tired of loading magazines.

 

If anyone knows of a magazine loader that works for the Black Dog mags, please post it.

 

 

Also, Merle called me the other day just to check in and see if I was having any problems. He indicated that they want to get the kit right and make sure that customers are taken care of if there is a problem.

 

Matt in Pdx

[Bob T]

My experience has been positive.

 

I had my WH 28 being reworked by PK when I got the kit. I asked him to go over it and make sure it was compatible with the mods he was doing on my gun.

 

I was having the quick change barrel mod, a 9mm barrel and bolt, both 21 and 28 internals with both Cutts and regular .45 barrel, and a 7.62 *25 barrel. Plus the usual WH fixes and a couple of "special" mods.

 

PK changed the .22 kit so that I did not have to remove the ejector to install the barrel liner. Instead the barrel liner is inserted from the front with the .22 bolt in place and then the quick change .45 barrel goes over top of it. Lastly the retainer is screwed onto the barrel liner.

 

I have tried it with both the Cutts barrel and the non compensated .45 barrels. Both work equally well.

Reliabilty is even better than the .22 kit in my Uzi.

 

I am using the 30 round .22 Black Dog stick magazine, loaded with Federal Bulk Pack from Wal-Mart.

 

Except for the odd dud round it has functioned very well. You do need to get used to the shorter cocking stroke. The bolt is retracted over a much shorter distance. The mags load fairly easily to their 30 round capacity. Cyclic rate is such that single taps are easy. PK did tune one of the supplied springs and found that magic spot where it is not a bullet hose like some other .22 kits are. Both semi and full modes work as they should.

 

Looking forward to having a 50 rd .22 drum for it.

 

 

[hrt4me]

I got one of the first of these BDM rimfire conversion kits, and after reading the initial posts about all the tinkering required and how ammo sensitive they are, I decided I did not want to mess with it; now I'm not so sure I need to sell it anymore...

[railroader]

After some initial tinkering with the recoil spring, it runs great. The negatives I have are, having to remove the ejector, not haveing a 100 round drum for it, and we definitley need a good stick mag loader.

[OldFalGuy]

I am at the Cheyenne Wells MG shoot and intent to shoot the conversion till I get tired of loaded mags and drums-

Already have run 600 through it with various ammo- only CCI green tag didn't work well- Aquila SS sub sonic ran quite well.

Have other brands this go around- will report

 

Mine was gone over by PK also but I had no idea he could do the mods you listed-

 

While I detest envy in every form, I am truly humbled by your efforts- Especially the 7.62x25 mod what mags/drum do you use?

 

Mark

[nfafan]

As an interested observer; sure hope someone is considering making up such a .22 conversion kit to fit the semi 1927s from A-O and Kahr.

[Bob T]

While I detest envy in every form, I am truly humbled by your efforts- Especially the 7.62x25 mod what mags/drum do you use?

 

I had sent Pk a variety of mags to consider. I had hoped the PPsh drum would work but he said it was .1" too wide to do the same sort of adaption he did to the Suomi 9mm drums to get them to work. He puts rails on the Suomi drum front and back. Also adds a mag stop to the back of the drum. They slide in just like a Thompson drum (but hold 71 rounds). Smaller drum than an "L" but still has the classic drum look.

 

The mags he settled on are PPS43 stick mags. He tested the barrel and mags, they work just fine. Waiting for them to be blued and shipped to me. The conversion uses the 9mm bolt.

 

In different conversation with Merle Bittikoffer he said to me that with some mods to the PPSh drum he can get them to slide in from the botttom like a .45 stick mag. PK thought that might not be best for long term use so I went with PK's suggestion.

Edited April 30, 2010 by Bob T

[just4grins]

I really like my kit. After having a few stovepipes, I asked Merle which of the springs furnished in the kit I should use, and he said "none of them". Per his suggestion, I took a stock Thompson recoil spring and shortened it to 10". The kit now runs great, and likes Federal bulk pack the best. I wish Black Dog had a mag loader, and that I had ordered more than 4 stick mags (I'm going to order more). All in all, a great conversion kit - good design, fun to shoot, and cheap to operate.

[OldFalGuy]

I only had a chance to run about 200 rods today- Chipped a bolt and busted a firing pin on the 1917- such is life

 

Of course the CCI Minimag runs well- WIll use Federal and Winchester bulk pack tomorrow-

 

Loaded up the 2 puma drums-

One ran like a top the other needs a little tinkering to get the follower up a bit more on the feed ramp-

 

The stick mags were flawless- Pain to load I agree a loader is needed- I can load the drum about as fast and easier on the thumbs.

[wwiifirearms]

Do they make a kit for the M1a1? I assume that would be hard because of the slam fire design of the m1a1.

-wwiifirearms

Edited May 2, 2010 by wwiifirearms

[jim c 351]

Do they make a kit for the M1a1? I assume that would be hard because of the slam fire design of the m1a1.

-wwiifirearms

Kits work in all 45 TSMGs and kits are slam fire.

Jim C

[Bridgeport28A1]

I took my Blackdog kit bolt apart this weekend after running around 600 rounds through it the previous two weeks. The bolt has a hammer and spring loaded firing pin that operates likes a 1928 bolt.

 

The Blackdog kit bolt would operate like a M1 bolt if used in a M1/M1A1 Thompson.

 

Ross

 

 

[philasteen]

I just need to have some more kids to load my mags . . .

[OldFalGuy]

Tried the Winchester & Federal bulk pack Hi vel 36 grain- ran pretty good when mid way into a mag-

Neither ran start to finish-

Had more than a few bang, cock, bang cock repeat then it finished the mag-

Friday one of the Puma drums ran once fine with CCI. The other wouldn't work at all. Think it needs some fitting to raise it a tiny bit. Saturday neither drum ran on anything. Go figure- Must be operator error-

 

A lot of folks thought it was neat though- I let a left handed lady shoot mine and she almost hurt herself grinning-

[just4grins]

Tried the Winchester & Federal bulk pack Hi vel 36 grain- ran pretty good when mid way into a mag-

Neither ran start to finish-

Had more than a few bang, cock, bang cock repeat then it finished the mag-

Friday one of the Puma drums ran once fine with CCI. The other wouldn't work at all. Think it needs some fitting to raise it a tiny bit. Saturday neither drum ran on anything. Go figure- Must be operator error-

 

A lot of folks thought it was neat though- I let a left handed lady shoot mine and she almost hurt herself grinning-

Mine did something very similar until I used the modified stock Thompson spring. Sounds like your problem with the stick mags may be too stiff a recoil spring.

[OldFalGuy]

Just4Grins-

I think your right- I have read here about trimming a stock spring to 10 inches. Not sure what is the best way other than

snipping off a bit and test then repeat. Shoots pretty fast though- It did not like the lighter spring when I tried it out the very first time. I had several stove pipes, one out of battery- that was loud-

Problem for me is no place to test it in full auto around here- suppose I could set it on semi- never tried-

Will it operate in semi??

 

Mark

[just4grins]

Mine does. The bolt needs to go back far enough to catch the sear. I didn't have much luck cutting the spring with a wire cutter (too hard), and ended up using a small abrasive cutoff wheel on a dremel tool.

 

Just4Grins-

I think your right- I have read here about trimming a stock spring to 10 inches. Not sure what is the best way other than

snipping off a bit and test then repeat. Shoots pretty fast though- It did not like the lighter spring when I tried it out the very first time. I had several stove pipes, one out of battery- that was loud-

Problem for me is no place to test it in full auto around here- suppose I could set it on semi- never tried-

Will it operate in semi??

 

Mark

 

[PK.]

I have been holding off on posting to this thread as I’ve been fitting the second kit I’ve seen, and wanted to have that experience under my belt.

 

To start, I’d say that personally, I have only about a 50% expectation that any 22 conversion will be a drop-in. There are just to many things going on and tolerances involved for it to be otherwise. Some kits are well enough designed that they can be fairly easily mated with their host and made to run 99.5%, which is very good for any 22lr conversion. It is not reasonable to expect 22 ammunition (as a whole) to not fail .5% of the time. Neither of the two kits I have fitted would even have be close to being a drop-in to their intended hosts

 

The first kit I installed was in a Colt specified receiver and the bolt wouldn’t mate in the front of the receiver pocket, primarily due to the modification seen on these early kits to compensate for what would appear to be a misplaced hammer pin hole. This would not be an issue with a WH receiver. After some other alterations and setting it up (which included fitting the barrel to properly interface with the other components) it worked quite well.

 

With the second kit I modified the barrel so it could be installed without removing the 45 ejector. I consider the requirement to remove that part in order to use the kit unacceptable, and was pleased the owner allowed me to experiment and find success in this one case. I’ve tried this barrel with several ejectors and in another receiver, all passed the 45 ejector easily and think this will be a viable upgrade if the makers would like to incorporate it.

 

I am concerned that the hammer pin is not retained in any way and could move out the side of the bolt and cause problems. The use of a bit of Loctite at assembly seems to do the trick here however. General de-burring seems to be required overall.

 

The earlier NAC kits and guns used an adapter and the Italian steel “banana” magazines. I have successfully adapted these to work with the BDM kit also.

 

I like the cyclic rate (750 rpm) which is unusual for a FA conversion kit, most running 1200 or so. The gun is very present to shoot and accurate enough for it’s intended use.

 

It’s not perfect out of the box, but with proper fitting it looks to be a winner. I am impressed enough to seriously consider one of these kits for my personal use.

 

 

[Merry Ploughboy]

PK,

 

Thank you for the complete and unbiased report.

[Uncle Dudley]

I finally got to the range to finish the "dial in" on the 22 kit. I had tried it just once with one of the springs in the kit and it would jamb the empty casing in the bolt before it fully ejected. I only tried it 3 times and put it away. I called my Dad, who was an armourer in the Air Force in the Korean War, and told him the problem. He suggested what was already posted about shortening the recoil spring. I had an original spring that was about 1/2 inch shorter than original and thought I'd give it a try. It ran like a top, man what a blast. The owner of the range came over and I handed him the gun and a fresh clip. He ripped of the mag and we both giggled like schoolgirls. Let's go find some gophers!!

 

I'm glad I bought 10 mags when I ordered my kit. A mag loader is a must have. I ran blazer solids and federal bulk hollowpoints, both worked great. I had the ejector bend which caused a stoppage, but a tweak with the small needlenose pliers and it was running good. First Sargent had an issue with the cocking knob rubbing on the reciever and mine does the same thing. He said Merle had a fix for this so I have an email in to Blackdog to see if I can get it done. I almost hate to give it up now that I know how much fun it is.

 

It's well worth the money, and will definately pay for itself in ammo cost. Oh yeah, it's very acurate. We were getting a 30 round clip dump in about the size of a 8.5 X 11 sheet of paper at around 70 yards. Shorter bursts were even better. Prarie dogs and Gophers Beware!!

 

UD

[Bridgeport28A1]

I tried the heavier Blackdog spring and had some jams with a magazine loaded to 30 rounds and also when trying to shoot burst the first trip out.

 

I shortened a stock 1928 spring to 10", put the kit in my 1928A1 and never had a jam, would shoot burst of different length, had no problems at all with mags loaded with 30 rounds. This kit is a blast.

 

I had a KC electronics Pro Timer III and after two 30 round mag dumps of Federal Bulk "wal-mart" .22 the timer showed the rate of fire of 679 and 711 rounds per minute.

 

My 1928A1 usually is around 850 rounds per minutes with Remington UMC or WWB.

 

I also made a spring measuring devise and will post results of how heavy those stock Blackdog springs are and how heavy my 1928 springs are. I was surprised as to how much variation there was on my 1928 springs.

 

Ross

[OldFalGuy]

Uncle- Would you let us all know what you hear from Black Dog on the Cocking Knob issue?

 

I was thinking of relieving that portion of the knob which contacts the top of the receiver with

 

small files and then buffing it with something- its a real small area.

 

Really looking forward to hearing from you Bridgeport on the spring measuring-

 

I feel a little funny taking a whack at a stock recoil spring without further knowledge.

Edited May 30, 2010 by OldFalGuy

[wwiifirearms]

Are these kits all sold out?

I didn't see any on the web site.

-wwiifirearms