aut-ord-co Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 Advertisement recently passed on to me. http://www.auctionby...pg=ap&pid=23883 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) Colt 1921A #4208 is supposedly on a Form 10. But there is no evidence that B&C ever used a TSMG during their crime spree or in fire fights with LEOs. Edited December 7, 2011 by Arthur Fliegenheimer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD. Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 I believe the serial number is NO 4208. I have heard that some early Form 10 guns are transferable. Key word - some. I don't understand it; it is just what I have been told. Looking at the pictures, this is one well used Thompson gun. The auction price will be interesting. I'm with Arthur on this one about the provenance - but always open to new information from someone not engaged in selling a product Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickstartit Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Tom, I agree with Arthur, I have always read their machine gun of choice was a B.A.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest title ii Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 (edited) I just spoke to Robert at the auction house. The weapon is currently registered on an ATF Form 5. He looked at the current registration documents while I was on the phone with him. It was originally registered during the 1968 Amnesty. December 10th 1968 is what he told me. It is fully transferable and C&R. Was used on the side of law and order back in the 1930's. A very interesting history comes along with this weapon. Edited December 8, 2011 by title ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwjw1 Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 #4208 Not only abused and well worn, but also appears to have a major bulge in barrel just forward of the grip mount. Wonder if barrel is open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbones2nd Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 So, the history of this colt is whats in question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCM Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Gentleman-Bonnie & Clyde never used a Thompson !1918 BAR was the choice weapon. He stole these from the military armories. Krags, shotguns, even a BAR that he cut the barrel down and called it his " scattergun" , pistols etc, but never a Thompson. I have some nice photos of him with BARS that I got from the family, who I got to know personally through the years. His sister & I were fairly good friends.Dillinger Thompson, Clyde & Bonnie no. Sandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopper28 Posted December 16, 2011 Report Share Posted December 16, 2011 OCM it would be nice if you could post some of your pics from the family. I am sure the board members would love to see them. We are all 1930's fans. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCM Posted December 16, 2011 Report Share Posted December 16, 2011 OCM it would be nice if you could post some of your pics from the family. I am sure the board members would love to see them. We are all 1930's fans. Thanks I'll have to figure out to do that on this board, seems every one is different. If anyone is particularily interested in a Thompson- 1930s outlaw related subject, can probably post a picture of same. Can't get to carried away, as this is a Thompson forum, not a history forum.First off, the avatar photo is my 28N in my 1933 Buick series 90, 7 passanger sedan. This is the same model the Dillinger gang used to rob the Racine bank in 33. ( there are only two or possibly three of these cars in the world- basically a limo, with jump seats) They picked up a 28N that one of the cops dropped at the robbery. At the Dillinger gang arrest in Tucson, the same gun was recovered and is now on display at the racine PD. I got to know one of the hostages they took ( she's passed now) and she was kind enough to take some pictures of the 28N on display. it appears to have a C drum on it. #3363 Sandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantpanda4 Posted December 16, 2011 Report Share Posted December 16, 2011 Maybe I m wrong - but to me anyway it is all about keeping the history alive! I do quite a bit of digging for information about Thompsons. This board is the greatest source of information sharing I know of! Post away! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmayo Posted December 16, 2011 Report Share Posted December 16, 2011 Historic Firearm AuctionBonnie & Clyde Tommy Gun & Winchester 1897 Live Auction: Saturday, January 21st - 10:00 a.m.Online & Absentee Bidding Available Preview: January 21st 8:30 a.m. - 10:00 a.m.Kansas City Auction Center8253 Wornall Road; Kansas City, MO 64114 A pair of historic firearms believed to have been owned and used by the outlaws Clyde Barrow and Bonnie Parker will be sold in this auction. http://www.streamlineworkspace.com/Uploads/54/Tommy%20Gun%20Auction/Test.jpg 45 Caliber Thompson Sub-machine Gun Model 1921A - Serial # 4208 http://www.streamlineworkspace.com/Uploads/54/Tommy%20Gun%20Auction/Winchester1.jpg Winchester 12 Guage Model 1897 - Serial # 650715The sellers great-grandfather, who was in law enforcement at the time, was given the two guns by another peace officer who had seized the weapons after a raid on the pair in Joplin, Missouri in April of 1933. The raid occurred at the height of the duo’s crime rampage that cut a wide swath across middle American during the Great Depression. The raid did not produce any arrests. The two had a knack for being one step ahead of law enforcement, but it did yield a cache of weapons, plus a camera. http://www.streamlineworkspace.com/Uploads/54/Tommy%20Gun%20Auction/Clyde1.jpg http://www.streamlineworkspace.com/Uploads/54/Tommy%20Gun%20Auction/Bonny1.jpg When the film was developed, there were pictures of the couple with some of their guns . The guns have been in the family of Mark Lairmore and his sisters, the sellers, from Springfield, MO., ever since the unknown Depression-era police officer gave them to their great-grandfather. http://www.streamlineworkspace.com/Uploads/54/Tommy%20Gun%20Auction/Newspaper1.jpg Melton Lairmore, left, operator of an armored car service in Springfield, presents two guns taken from the car of famed 1930’s gangsters Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow to Springfield Police Chief Gordon Loveland. Lairmore is loaning the .45 Thompson sub-machine gun and the 12-guage Winchester shotgun to police for use in displays during Crime Prevention Month and in the future police museum in the old city jail. Also pictured are a "claw" handcuff which Lairmore’s grandfather, M.L. Lairmore, a Tulsa police detective, used following the capture of Pretty Boy Folyd in Oklahoma, and five photographs of the Bonnie and Clyde gang found in the pair’s car after their last shootout with authorities. M.L. Lairmore, who was wounded in the leg by Pretty Boy Floyd, obtained the photos and guns from another officer who was involved in gunning down the pair in 1934. http://www.streamlineworkspace.com/Uploads/54/Tommy%20Gun%20Auction/Museum1.jpgThe weapons were displayed in the Springfield Missouri Police Museum, also known as The Calaboose, from 1973 until 2011The .45 Thompson sub-machine gun is fully automatic and will require the buyer to fill out the appropriate paperwork and application with the ATF. The buyer will be required to pay for gun on auction day, and will take possession of the firearm from the seller when the application process is complete.http://www.streamlineworkspace.com/Uploads/54/Tommy%20Gun%20Auction/Thumbnail.JPGhttp://www.streamlineworkspace.com/Uploads/54/Tommy%20Gun%20Auction/P1090679new.jpg http://www.streamlineworkspace.com/Uploads/54/Tommy%20Gun%20Auction/P1090674new.jpghttp://www.streamlineworkspace.com/Uploads/54/Tommy%20Gun%20Auction/P1090666.jpg http://www.streamlineworkspace.com/Uploads/54/Tommy%20Gun%20Auction/P1090669.jpgThe Winchester 12 guage model 1897 will not require the same level of licensing to take ownership. A simple 4473 form will be the only form needing processed to take possesion. http://www.streamlineworkspace.com/Uploads/54/Tommy%20Gun%20Auction/P1090694.jpg http://www.streamlineworkspace.com/Uploads/54/Tommy%20Gun%20Auction/P1090692.jpg http://www.streamlineworkspace.com/Uploads/54/Tommy%20Gun%20Auction/P1090693.jpg http://www.streamlineworkspace.com/Uploads/54/Tommy%20Gun%20Auction/P1090701.jpg http://www.streamlineworkspace.com/Uploads/54/Tommy%20Gun%20Auction/P1090696.jpgAdditional Photos If you have any questions or need assistance getting registered, please don’t hesitate to call our office. 816-361-2600913-390-9393Mayo Auction & Realtywww.AuctionByMayo.comRevised Press Release.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCM Posted December 16, 2011 Report Share Posted December 16, 2011 I'm a newbie here, don't want to cause a forum issue with anyone by getting off the subject. Best keep everything relating to the Thompsons & the 30s outlaws. I don't have the resources to quote many #s anymore, but still can look some things up on the outlaw Thompsons. Got a lot of stories and visuals tho. Been doing this type research for 40-45 years now, memory isn't as good as it used to be. Not the best on Capone, mostly the lone type outlaws.so, is it best for someone to open a new thread and go off the Colt # 4208 head ? Up to you.Have not figured out how to attach a photo, I don't have a web site therefore I don't think I have a link to a URL. I normally attach directly from my files.help ?Thompsons & gangsters, good subject. OCM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 I approve of this posting, because it is of general interest to the board. The auction company was referred to the site by one of our members. Anyone thinking about buying these firearms should fully research their provenance, and make an informed personal decision regarding validity. David Albertdalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anticus Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Interesting. Didn't know B&C used a Thompson in their real life criminal acitivity. The sources mention BAR's as their weapon of choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1921A Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) Interesting. Didn't know B&C used a Thompson in their real life criminal acitivity. The sources mention BAR's as their weapon of choice.You're right! They didn't! I'm sure someone will correct the record if we're wrong but I have never encountered any picture or documentation that these two ever possesed or used a Thompson gun in their brief but violent crime spree. The police obviously did, but this story does not match up to history. I'm surprised some of our members who are heavily into researching TSMGs and the "gangster era" haven't weighed in on this one. Edited March 28, 2014 by 1921A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim c 351 Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Interesting. Didn't know B&C used a Thompson in their real life criminal acitivity. The sources mention BAR's as their weapon of choice.For that matter did B&C ever use a M97 Win pump. Most pictures I remember pictured Remington M11 semi's.Jim C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCM Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Interesting. Didn't know B&C used a Thompson in their real life criminal acitivity. The sources mention BAR's as their weapon of choice. Your right! They didn't! I'm sure someone will correct the record if we're wrong but I have never encountered any picture or documentation that these two ever possesed or used a Thompson gun in their brief but violent crime spree. The police obviously did, but this story does not match up to history. I'm surprised some of our members who are heavily into researching TSMGs and the "gangster era" haven't weighed in on this one. I did give my 2 cents in posting about 12 posts down, " Colt # 4208 Auction " This stuff is interesting to me, but fading away in time. That's why we got books I guess. I'm still with it, but ask a 30 year old if they have ever heard of John Dillinger, Oh , you mean Johnny Depp. HHAAHA.So there you go.( sure would be nice to have a " correct " FBI case, to go with my Navy overstamp and my cars.... just saying )SandyOCM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anticus Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Maybe it was used by Faye Dunaway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCM Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Well, Warren sure used a Thompson in the movie, as did Pollard.Almost ALWAYS in the 30s gangster movies, actors use a WWII BAR for 1933-1934. The 1918s are rare.Same with the TSMG.Just what's avaliable at the rental places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwjw1 Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 I am surprised no one has mentioned what appears to be a significant bulge in the barrel just forward of the support above the grip. An abused worn gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z3BigDaddy Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 I don't see it... crop and post the pic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptCurl Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Any guesses as to what it might bring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 If we're taking guesses, mine is that it will bring $24.5K, including any auction fees. It will have to be based on the gun, not the story... David Albertdalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCM Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Most all of the Thompsons, if not all of the outlaw Thompsons are in PD collections, FBI or museums. I don't recall ever seeing a outlaw Thompson coming to auction. Our group of historians have traced them, held them and even shot them. Some very good friends of mine, both retired from law enforcment, have traveled the Dillinger trail in search of these historic TSMGs.Let me tell you this, I've seen phoney outlaw weapons sell for $20-95,000.00, I won't go into it here, but 2 hours of easy documental search could of proved otherwise. Law enforcement records and gun #s !I don't know anything about this Barrow Thompson but I do know about Clyde & Bonnie.Do your homework.Value, a true Barrow, Dillinger, Nelson weapon.......... priceless, should be in a museum type place! This gun, I'm WAY to new at this to even go there, the guys on this forum should know. Sandy Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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