A Question About Stick Mag Modification...

[ithacaartist]

As most know, New York State has passed legislation called "Safe NY". This precipitously conceived set of regulations will keep us hopping for a while, if it is allowed to stand after it is, I feel, inevitably tested in the courts.

 

One of the provisions, uness I am mstaken, is the restriction on owning high capacity--in this case, anything over 7 rounds--magazines. This, after I finally succeeded in obtaining, modifying, and tuning a couple of G.I. mags for my Thompson semi! Theoretically, I have until April 15, 2014 to sell them out of state or to a dealer. An available option would, however, be to permanently reduce their capacity to within legal limits. This certainly dashes to the earth my desire to have (afford) a hundred round pre-ban drum!

 

Anyway, does anyone have any experience in reducing capacity in a stick mag? Intuitively, I'd think that shortening the mag body and spring by the required dimension and proportion would get me pretty close if I were concerned only with capacity. For the original look of a 30-shot stick, the modification would need to be done internally, and in a way that would eliminate feasibility of its restoration to full capacity. Any suggestions?

 

David Parker

 

p.s. My new Thompson now qualifies as an assault weapon! The number of deadly characteristics used to qualify/disqualify a long gun as an A.W. dropped from three--90's ban style--to ONE, with some new ones added, just for good measure. For mine, TWO pistol grips, a compensator, and the ability to accept a high capacity mag.

[Chief762]

I'd say it's time to consider moving to a friendlier location.

[T-Bone]

You will have to permanently modify the body of the magazine. You might try swaging in some impressions around the body that will keep the follower from being depressed too far. The trick is the spring still needs to be able to freely move.

 

T

[zeeone]

Wow. That sucks. Hope that doesn't happen in PA. Please keep us advised as to any legal challange and success of the challenge.

[T Hound]

Well I actually have experience with this because, living in California, but not born in it, I had to modify

my Thompson 30 round mags. There are many ways you can do it but it really depends on

what New York State means by "permanent". In my case all I had to do was put a couple of pop rivets

at the correct level in order to stop the downward movement of the follower. I also put a aluminum

rectangular box inside which was pop riveted to the side through one of the already extant holes in

the Thompson box mags. It works quite well and if I ever escape this prison called California then

I will drill them out and return them to the form God, and Thompson intended them to be. But what

makes them permanent is that you couldn't disassemble them in the field. New York State may

be different so you will have to consult the bill itself or wait for a gun rights attorney/gun-enthusiast

to explain it.

 

A note: It is hard to get the rivets exactly in the place you need to put it at only 10 rounds let

alone only 7. If New York enforces like here, if the LEO pushes hard enough to get one more round

in then you are screwed--so to speak.

[T Hound]

p.s. My new Thompson now qualifies as an assault weapon! The number of deadly characteristics used to qualify/disqualify a long gun as an A.W. dropped from three--90's ban style--to ONE, with some new ones added, just for good measure. For mine, TWO pistol grips, a compensator, and the ability to accept a high capacity mag.

 

David,

You can do like I did and take off the grips--use a horizontal forend and buy a spare thompson hand grip--new of course

so no historical furniture is destroyed--and cut down the grip to be just level with the trigger guard. This will also require

you to manufacture a grip bolt to fit the length. you can do this by buying a 1/4 diameter bolt and using the correct

die to cut the threads. Keep in mind that this 1/4 bolt thread is NOT standard. But you can order the dies from almost

any specialist tool shop. I don't remember its specification off the top of my head, but I will find the die I used and update

back here when I do. Hope that helps brother.

[T-Bone]

PA has a pretty sinister bill in right now. There is a ink in the FA forum.

 

T

[T Hound]

David, as per your request for info:

 

Here is the update for the die that I used to create my own short grip bolt for a modified

grip to accomodate the law. The 1/4 diameter is a 14-24 NS (This is not a common

die or bolt in use now). Trust me when I say that an ordinary 1/4 bolt wont do unless

your plan is to strip the trigger frame grip bolt hole.

 

So what I did was to cut the grip down to be nearly flush with the trigger guard. Then I

measure the length of bolt I would need to bolt this smaller "grip" onto the trigger frame.

If you make it too long and then screw it all the way in to get the grip tight you will find

that it then interferes with the sear and thus the trigger action. Thus the length of the

bolt cannot be any longer than the end of the bolt hole and the start of the grip bolt

hole in the grip. Oh and did I say that I hate liberals. Pretty funny considering that

I live in such a liberal state.

 

John

Edited February 24, 2013 by T Hound

[ithacaartist]

 

 

The 1/4 diameter is a 14-24 NS (This is not a common

die or bolt in use now). Trust me when I say that an ordinary 1/4 bolt wont do unless

your plan is to strip the trigger frame grip bolt hole.

 

I've been through a similar drill with one of my 1906 American Eagle Lugers. It had a buggered grip screw tapping anmd I sought the proper tap with which to chase it out. It turned out to be a Whitworth fine thread; needless to say, I now own a tap.

 

So what I did was to cut the grip down to be nearly flush with the trigger guard. Then I

measure the length of bolt I would need to bolt this smaller "grip" onto the trigger frame.

If you make it too long and then screw it all the way in to get the grip tight you will find

that it then interferes with the sear and thus the trigger action. Thus the length of the

bolt cannot be any longer than the end of the bolt hole and the start of the grip bolt

hole in the grip.

 

Yup. Another approach to establishing the bolt's length might be to strip the lower to remove any interfering parts as a slightly long bolt is screwed in as far as necessary to secure the new furniture, then mark the excess from the inside, remove, and shorten to the mark. If it's not considered too much work...

 

I'd call the remaining wood a stub, as opposed to grip! I'm trying to picture how to hold onto the rifle with this modification; how do you do it? Maybe cup the stub in the depression made by a clenched fist, minus the trigger finger? I guess that would sort of locate the back end while holding it up, leaving the hand on the forestock to hold up the front, orient the entire rifle vertically, and press it to the shoulder. This modification might also lend itself to ease of bump-firing, as well?

 

 

Oh and did I say that I hate liberals. Pretty funny considering that

I live in such a liberal state.

 

John

 

 

Sorry about that, John, maybe...

 

I'd say it's time to consider moving to a friendlier location.

 

Personally, I try to take each man on his his own merits or failings and avoid an us v. them approach. I also try to support all the amendments of our Constitution, not just my favorite interpretations of a few.

 

thanks for the suggestions. all,

 

David Parker

Edited March 4, 2013 by ithacaartist

[T Hound]

quote

I'd call the remaining wood a stub, as opposed to grip! I'm trying to picture how to hold onto the rifle with this modification; how do you do it? Maybe cup the stub in the depression made by a clenched fist, minus the trigger finger? I guess that would sort of locate the back end while holding it up, leaving the hand on the forestock to hold up the front, orient the entire rifle vertically, and press it to the shoulder. This modification might also lend itself to ease of bump-firing, as well? unquote

 

Yes, correct. If you call it a grip then the lib/leos will jump on that. As for holding on to it, well, that is the whole problem. It FEELS unbalanced, like you have your arms extended all the way out. So, yes, the pistol grip really is necessary on the Thompson in order to balance it correctly--in my opinion. So only a correct shooting stance will overcome this. What that stance is I haven't yet discovered to my satisfaction.

 

 

quote

Personally, I try to take each man on his his own merits or failings and avoid an us v. them approach. I also try to support all the amendments of our Constitution, not just my favorite interpretations of a few.

 

David Parker unquote

 

Unfortunately it really is Us vs. Them. Here in California liberal legislators say with a gleeful smile that they are going to take our guns away. And they call US the nuts. And say WE are dangerous and deranged for wanting or having guns, let alone "assault" rifles---really just ANY semi-auto in their small, small minds. It is THEY who have declared war and sometimeswar has to be fought. If I am pushed I will, and should, push back.

 

As for the "interpretation" of the 2nd Amendment, let alone other Amendments to

the Constitution, there is no "interpretation". The meaning is indeed clear and

a read of the Federalist Papers makes it crystal clear the intent of the founding

fathers' which is the same intent written at the bottom of my member details to the

left. There can be NO interpretation other than that. This is not my opinion this

is a fact that congress has chosen, without right, and illegally, to ignore. Taking

a view other than the truth, which is that our guns are meant to be against ALL

government tyranny, is to tacitly approve of their view which is completely

incorrect. Don't do that and don't NOT resist because they WILL take all

our gun rights if we don't. I guarantee it brother.

 

John/T Hound

Edited March 4, 2013 by T Hound

[ithacaartist]

John,

 

The second amendment is, indeed, short, sweet, and fairly easy to figure out. The problem comes when politics happen--which is whenever the second person enters the room. When the rights of two people overlap in a conflicting way, it would seem that either true compromise or total conflict will arise. I still have not heard a good idea about how to keep potential deadly implements of any format out of the hands or control of those who would do bad things with them. But just because this is the case, I'm still not down with taking anything--even convenience--from those who choose to own and enjoy firearms safely and sanely. I know plenty of people who, though they could pass muster on any kind of background check, I'd not trust with a pointed stick, let alone a firearm. This issue is like the Gordian Knot. I hope things can be worked out, and agree that we should all do our part to have our voices heard and understood.

 

David

[T Hound]

John,

 

The second amendment is, indeed, short, sweet, and fairly easy to figure out. The problem comes when politics happen--which is whenever the second person enters the room. When the rights of two people overlap in a conflicting way, it would seem that either true compromise or total conflict will arise. I still have not heard a good idea about how to keep potential deadly implements of any format out of the hands or control of those who would do bad things with them. But just because this is the case, I'm still not down with taking anything--even convenience--from those who choose to own and enjoy firearms safely and sanely. I know plenty of people who, though they could pass muster on any kind of background check, I'd not trust with a pointed stick, let alone a firearm. This issue is like the Gordian Knot. I hope things can be worked out, and agree that we should all do our part to have our voices heard and understood.

 

David

 

I don't disagree David. And since I am a high school teacher, I am especially concerned with the issue of nuts getting guns and other weapons and using them. One of my own math students three years ago was arrested for threatening to kill his girlfriend, his sister's boyfriend and everybody at my high school. He was institutionalized as he should have been and the story never saw the light of day or news media. But what the nanny state people really want is not safety but to insure complete control and to take our choices away, i.e. our freedom to determine our own lives. You cannot ever have safe simply because we all know we cannot avoid death, only postpone it. The world always was and always will be a dangerous place with or without guns. I elect to keep the guns including all the way up to machine guns. As regards school safety a determined killer just has to go to youtube

to find instructions on how to make far more effective and deadly weapons than semi-auto firearms. Still I can almost guarantee the ability to stop most gun men if the government/school districts/dictorial principals would do three things: 1. Keep all metal doors and gates LOCKED--make sure they are metal first. 2. Windows must be bullet resistant or proof (relative I know). 3. Intervention in mental illness is a must and in the case of my ex-student worked perfectly. He is still locked up by the way--total psychotic break down that one. In all of this I still feel that the 2nd Amendment is NOT and NEVER should be open for discussion. It is the ONLY chance of guaranteeing our

freedom. Frankly we tolerate FAR more death and destruction from something that isn't a Constitutional right--automobiles. Far more deaths there and especially of youngsters.

Respectfully,

John/T Hound

Edited March 6, 2013 by T Hound

[ithacaartist]

Well put.

 

If it actually does become necessary, I thought I'd try to cut down a mag body and spring--a little at a time on the spring--to create a reduced capacity shorty mag. Just one, to see how it goes...

[wh20crazy]

Maybe a plug inside the magazine spring. I'm thinking of something like you have in a pump shotgun that would fit inside the spring & allow the spring to compress & expand without interfering. I think you'd have to taper the top & bottom of the plug as it would be free to move up & down when the magazine is not full. Either that, or secure the plug either to the follower or the base of the magazine & only taper the unsecured end.

 

A less desirable option would be to make a false bottom that is spaced up the proper distance from the actual bottom of the magazine. You'd have to shorten the spring for that, & I don't like that idea nearly as much.

[T Hound]

Well put.

 

If it actually does become necessary, I thought I'd try to cut down a mag body and spring--a little at a time on the spring--to create a reduced capacity shorty mag. Just one, to see how it goes...

No, don't do that. There are many ways to do it, but cutting the spring won't do the trick.

A plug, like the one wh20Crazy mentioned, was indeed my first attempt and it worked;

but, I didn't get the height correct so I can only get 9 rounds in that particular Thompson

magazine. The plug is riveted, ie permanently installed with the rivet through one of the

viewing holes on the Box mag side and would have to be drilled out to restore it.

 

California allows that as being permanent because you could not

easily convert this in the field in any kind of timely manner. I don't know what the

New York law will say about high cap mags being converted, but the California

one specifically mentions what is acceptable. You will have to read it, New York

law, carefully.

 

What I have purchased here in California in gun shows, once the dealers finally

realized they could make a killing, which they did, was magazines with aluminum

rivets placed on both sides so as to stop the follower. That works quite well

actually and all my AK semi-auto mags have these rivets on the spine. Obviously

that won't work for the Thompson along the spine! But along the side---yes.

 

Best part about it is if you ever escape your gun-hell prison, same with me, then

you can drill those out and convert them back to high cap. Certainly a pleasant

thought!

 

Hope that helps brother.

Edited March 7, 2013 by T Hound

[T Hound]

Maybe a plug inside the magazine spring. I'm thinking of something like you have in a pump shotgun that would fit inside the spring & allow the spring to compress & expand without interfering. I think you'd have to taper the top & bottom of the plug as it would be free to move up & down when the magazine is not full. Either that, or secure the plug either to the follower or the base of the magazine & only taper the unsecured end.

 

A less desirable option would be to make a false bottom that is spaced up the proper distance from the actual bottom of the magazine. You'd have to shorten the spring for that, & I don't like that idea nearly as much.

 

I did that very thing and it works quite well. My plug was an aluminum box that I build from an

aluminum plate that I assembled into a rectangular box (the plug) along with a hole for a rivet

to permanently attach it to the wall. But you have to get the length/height correct in order to

get 10 rounds, or 7 rounds for New York, as the case may be.

 

John/T Hound

[ithacaartist]

I like the idea of the internal plug the best--nothing showing on the outside. To keep it from rattling around, I'd fashion a way to attach it to the bottom of the follower, again, to keep the outside lines clean; and this approach lends itself to being adaptable to any number of rounds, and isn't readily restorable.

 

BTW, I heard on NPR this morning that Illinois may become the ultimate gun-hell prison to surpass NY--no CCW! Good luck to you there!

Edited March 8, 2013 by ithacaartist

[TSMGguy]

After the Soviets took over the Baltic states, somone remarked that the gardens there no longer looked looked very good. "Of course not," said a local, "We no longer water them. Wouldn't want the guns to rust, would we?"

[T Hound]

I like the idea of the internal plug the best--nothing showing on the outside. To keep it from rattling around, I'd fashion a way to attach it to the bottom of the follower, again, to keep the outside lines clean; and this approach lends itself to being adaptable to any number of rounds, and isn't readily restorable.

 

BTW, I heard on NPR this morning that Illinois may become the ultimate gun-hell prison to surpass NY--no CCW! Good luck to you there!

You can do that, but then you will have to put a hole in the follower in order to get a rivet in. I put my rivets through the side viewing holes of

the Thompson box mag. You can always blacken the rivet so that it is not as visible. But then again if a LEO stops you and examines

your mag, if the fix is not obvious then he might try to arrest you or make you prove that it will only accept 7 rounds.

[T Hound]

After the Soviets took over the Baltic states, somone remarked that the gardens there no longer looked looked very good. "Of course not," said a local, "We no longer water them. Wouldn't want the guns to rust, would we?"

That's what we call california now--the Baltic state.

[emmagee1917]

I would make a horseshoe of thin metal that would slip between the sidewalls and the spring. Attach a plug / shaft / to that . Slide it into the mag and reassemble to check. Remove, shorten and retry as needed. When you've got it right , drill through one leg of the horseshoe through the mag's lower witness hole and pop rivit.

It could not be undone at the range , but it could be undone without damage if needed.

Chris

[T Hound]

I would make a horseshoe of thin metal that would slip between the sidewalls and the spring. Attach a plug / shaft / to that . Slide it into the mag and reassemble to check. Remove, shorten and retry as needed. When you've got it right , drill through one leg of the horseshoe through the mag's lower witness hole and pop rivit.

It could not be undone at the range , but it could be undone without damage if needed.

Chris

Exactly. Something like that is going to work just fine and the rivet insures that it is

permanent with minimum to no damage to the magazine. Then if you leave your

anti-gun hell hole, wherever that may be, you can reconvert it back to high cap.

[Zamm]

Hey guys,

I just read the registration form from the NYState police. If you look at the bottom, there is a provision for registering "Antique Magazines" that hold more then 10 rounds. Upon further searching at the new law's question and answer website, I found that any magazine manufactured 50 or more years ago is classified as an antique magazine. So, problem solved for all the GI sticks and drums.

Just register them with your semi Tommy.

Remember, though, you are only allowed to load 7rounds in these magazines, as per stated law .

Cheers, Zamm