AO 1928A1 on GB

[Devil Dog 1110]

Frank has another Thompson listed on Gun Broker.

This one looks pretty good.

I am interested in it and would appreciate the comments of our expert's.

Sorry, I don't know how to post the listing.

 

Thanks

DD

[joseph12297]

Hey DD,

 

Is this the one??

 

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=382616517

 

Says original finish, but it looks like its been parkerized to me. The barrel index markings are in duplicate, so it looks like a replacement barrel.

Looks like matching numbers upper and lower... Nice enough AO 28

[Kilroy]

If only it came with some more magazines...

 

Seriously though, what do you think it'll go for?

[Chief762]

Nice looking package. Between 20 and 25K I'd say would be about right.

Chief762

If only it came with some more magazines...

 

Seriously though, what do you think it'll go for?

[Dolphinvet]

Lotsa crud in the compensator. Nice package though.

[giantpanda4]

I got to check my safe... this looks exactly like mine! Right down to the crud in the comp!

 

Previous estimate is a good number based on what the last two tommies Frank sold (The Westie with the long snout went in the 14s).

 

If you are interested in a nicer gun with more rarity - Melvin here on the Board is offering a really great deal on a overstamp - really tough to beat that for rarity and the price is real right.

[Bridgeport28A1]

I don't believe I have ever seen a "ordnance wheel" stamp as cleanly stamped as the one pictured in the ad. No Army Ordnance inspector stamp present in the photos which I think it should have.

 

http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/TW56/AO%2008564%20frame/pix512425164.jpg

 

edit: added picture img

Edited December 22, 2013 by Bridgeport28A1

[ThompsonCrazy]

I was unaware the low serial number AOC's began with a zero.

[mnshooter]

I don't believe I have ever seen a "ordnance wheel" stamp as cleanly stamped as the one pictured in the ad. No Army Ordnance inspector stamp present in the photos which I think it should have.

 

Also wondering about that wheel stamp.

 

The other question I hope someone here can help with:

 

I know the Savage 28's often have the deeply countersunk drum slots, but the few AO's I have seen all had a reduced radius more on the order of the 21.

On this gun, it almost looks like someone did an "enhancement" on the slots before the "original" Parkerizing. Anyone?

Edited December 21, 2013 by mnshooter

[Devil Dog 1110]

Is that an Ohio Ordinance Works wheel stamp on this gun?

If so one would assume that they did a restoration on the gun including adding the "original" finish.

???

[Kilroy]

I don't believe I have ever seen a "ordnance wheel" stamp as cleanly stamped as the one pictured in the ad. No Army Ordnance inspector stamp present in the photos which I think it should have.

 

That's similar to the stamp on mine, though mine is not as clear and it has WB under it. Is the WB what you are refering to as the Ordnance inspector stamp?

[Bridgeport28A1]

 

I don't believe I have ever seen a "ordnance wheel" stamp as cleanly stamped as the one pictured in the ad. No Army Ordnance inspector stamp present in the photos which I think it should have.

 

That's similar to the stamp on mine, though mine is not as clear and it has WB under it. Is the WB what you are refering to as the Ordnance inspector stamp?

 

Yes, WB stamp is for Waldemar Broberg who was the Ordnance Inspector in the Hartford Ordnance District. I would expect his "WB" stamp to be present in the the vicinity of this early "4 digit" A.O. serial number if it was an original military accepted Thompson.

 

The question on the preceding 0 in there serial number is a good one, I have to look in my files if the early A.O. serial numbers had the 0.

 

edit: The list of "Russian Lend Lease" serial numbers in the pinned topics has AO7880 as the lowest A.O. serial number. No preceding 0 in front of the four digit serial number. I really question the 0 in front of the four digits on the 28A1 referenced in this thread.

 

The rear sight rivets also look to be not original but they are hard to get a good look in the pictures.

 

http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/TW56/AO%2008564%20frame/pix905691156.jpg

 

edit: Added picture img of sight rivets

Edited December 22, 2013 by Bridgeport28A1

[mnshooter]

Does anyone know why there would be numbers stamped in the magazine well?

You can see an 8 and a 5 just above the magazine in the photo of the upside down gun.

Edited December 22, 2013 by mnshooter

[Bridgeport28A1]

Trigger frame pictures has a No (Capital N small o) prefix to the A.O. serial number. My A.O. trigger frame serial number only has A.O. 60234, there is not a No. preceding the A.O. 60234

 

A Savage 28A1 frame I have has NO preceding serial number on the frame but both letters are the same size.

 

Photograph posted in the ad has FULL AUTO on two lines on the trigger frame.

 

I have never have seen numbers stamped before on the under side of the magazine opening.

 

edit: FULL AUTO on two line in photograph

Edited December 22, 2013 by Bridgeport28A1

[reconbob]

This gun is NOT original. The magazine well area has been re-machined - probably because it is some

type of reweld. Honestly - its not even close. All of you with original Thompsons go check/look at the magazine

cutout area and I am sure you will back me up on this. On this gun the corners of the magazine cutout are

a sharp 90 degree angle:

 

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/reconbob/pix512425164_zpsfe521cbb.jpg

 

An original Thompson has a 1/8" radius corner in the corners of the magazine cutout:

 

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/reconbob/get-attachment_zpsb686b279.jpg

 

The reason for this is simple. This area had to be remachined and the person who did it was too cheap to get a cutter properly custom ground

to generate the right corner. I am sure this was done years ago when Thompsons were not worth what they are now. Quite likely the Form 4

also lists "Auto-Ordnance" as the manufacturer as many of these were amnesty registered and back then nobody checked the guns in person

to see if they were remanufactured or original.

I do not think that it is a coincidence that the photo that would otherwise clearly show the mag cutout is taken with the magazine in place

so you can't see more:

 

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/reconbob/pix724914768_zpsc77a3416.jpg

 

This is the same seller that "forgot" to list a M1928A1 as a West Hurley until we noticed it and mentioned it on this board.

 

Bob

 

 

 

 

 

[Dolphinvet]

My M1 Thompson has the same sharp angle. Is this the same in the M1 as the 1928? Curious because I'm told my gun was original, though it's nickel plated.

[reconbob]

On the M1 Thompson the corner radius is smaller - 0.06" (1/16") but it should be a radius

and not a 90 degree sharp corner.

 

Bob

[Dolphinvet]

Here's a few of the nose section of my M1. Let me know if my gun was tampered with in your opinion.

 

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j331/Dolphinvet/20131221_200656.jpghttp://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j331/Dolphinvet/20131221_200733.jpghttp://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j331/Dolphinvet/20131221_200742.jpghttp://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j331/Dolphinvet/20131221_200815.jpghttp://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j331/Dolphinvet/20131221_200846.jpghttp://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j331/Dolphinvet/20131221_200904.jpg

[jim c 351]

I agree with all those who question this guns background.

My AO gun has the radius" on front and back of the top of the mag well, just like Bob has stated.

The ordnance wheel is 10 times as deep as the wheel on my gun and its located where the "WB" is stamped on my AO.

I also agree the serial number beginning with "0" is very strange.

Bob probably is on to something when he suggests a Form 1 welded receiver.

Sadly, the buyer won't learn the truth until he owns the gun and files a FOIA.

I must admit the finish is quite good if it is welded. Usually you can see a difference in color at the weld.

I think it would be a BUY NOW at about $12,000.00 as a shooter.

Jim C

[jim c 351]

 

 

 

Regular Group

 

175 posts

Gender:Male

Location:Florida

Interests:Submachine guns, silencers, SBR's, and military weapons in general. Flying, animal medicine, and surgery. Marine mammals and dolphins in particular. Oh yeah, Thompsons!

 

 

Posted Today, 08:43 PM

 

 

Here's a few of the nose section of my M1. Let me know if my gun was tampered with in your opinion.

 

DV,

Tampered with????????

Well,--the finish is a little on the bright side.

But I like it. I'd rather have your gun than the gun in question.

Jim C

[reconbob]

Dolphinvet your M1 looks AOK from what I can see. I agree that if the gun on GB is some type of weld that

its a very good job, but they blew it with the square corner mag well and the perfectly positioned and

engraved ordnance wheel is a classic example of trying too hard - I do not recall ever seeing one that

perfect either.

 

Bob

Edited December 22, 2013 by reconbob

[mnshooter]

Reconbob,

Thank You for another extremely informational post.

Could you comment on the drum slot countersinks (can't really use the word radius, 'cause there isn't any) on this gun, and;

is it correct that the AO receivers usually do not have the overly deep radius cuts often found on the Savage 28's?

 

Thanks again.

[Dolphinvet]

Regular Group

 

175 posts

Gender:Male

Location:Florida

Interests:Submachine guns, silencers, SBR's, and military weapons in general. Flying, animal medicine, and surgery. Marine mammals and dolphins in particular. Oh yeah, Thompsons!

 

 

Posted Today, 08:43 PM

 

 

Here's a few of the nose section of my M1. Let me know if my gun was tampered with in your opinion.

 

DV,

Tampered with????????

Well,--the finish is a little on the bright side.

But I like it. I'd rather have your gun than the gun in question.

Jim C

 

I plan on taking it back to the dark blue finish. It's a great shooter though. I'm really not into pimped out guns though several on here have voiced their opinions to keep it as is. I only paid 12k for it this year (as you know I just got it), and that's not "too" bad considering what people are paying nowadays for these things. I admit someone must have went nuts with a buffing wheel and then put the nickel plate on, but I'll take it.

Jim B (Dolphinvet)

[reconbob]

I never noticed a dramatic difference between the drum slot fillets, or corner rounds on Savage

vs. Auto-Ord guns. I did just check 1/2dozen receivers and it does seem that the Savage fillets are a little

deeper.

I went and I looked at the photos in the auction again, and sadly, I think the seller knows exactly

what he's got and is doing his best to conceal it. Any photo that shows the mag cutout is either too

far away to see the detail, or cropped in such a way that you cannot see both corners of the cutout

at the same time. If you could see the front and the rear corners together it would be

very obvious that the rear one is square, and the front one is rounded and equally obvious that

something is wrong because Thompsons just don't look like that.

There is a BIG difference in the value of a repaired/welded receiver - the assumption being

that the gun was torched and rebuilt - and a true, original un-cut gun.

 

Bob

Edited December 22, 2013 by reconbob

[m3bobby]

I'm no Thompson expert but even I'm a bit sus by this one. When I compare it to my really tatty AO 1928 I see some differences and I'd be a little worried by the '0' prefix to the number.

 

http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad51/m3bobby/CIMG3463.jpg

 

http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad51/m3bobby/CIMG3462.jpg