kyle Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 The Savage '28A1 (S/N 334xxx) I'm buying showed up my C3 dealer yesterday. Following the serial number, the letters "NAC" are stamped. Now we all know what "NAC" normally represents, but I've never heard of any of the Numrich guns being anything other than guns assembled from original Colt receivers and parts. And their serial numbers were stamped NAC-XXXX. This is an all-Savage gun. Does anybody have a clue to what this gun is? I'll try and post a picture later today. I'd appreciate any help/advice possible as I'm puking my cookies right now. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/sad.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sten guy Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 I saw an NAC savage at knob creek in the fall. I think it was the same one that supposedly had history with the Oklahoma highway patrol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron A Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 I know where there is a gun just like the one you describe - the receiver is savage as is all the receiver parts - the Bbl however is smooth and the comp has a set screw in the bottom. There is no pin in the comp. The gun is light park. The gun is stamped "tommygun" I am in the process of buying this gun. The gun has a serial # S xxxxxx NAC. The NAC is stamped very lightly following the savage serial number. I have been told Numrich Arms put these together from parts they had and registered the guns. I also would be interested in comments... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 The NAC prefix are found on Colt receivers assembled and serial numbered by Numrich. The NAC suffix are found on Savage receiver guns with existing serial numbers, but could have been assembled by Numrich such as Savage 1928 S-71189NAC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawksnest Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 Arthur: While I agree with you most of the time, I must take exception to your statement "The NAC suffix are found on Savage receiver guns with existing serial numbers, but were also assembled by Numrich such as Savage S-71189NAC" My exception to your statement that Numrich ASSEMBLED suffix NAC guns is found by examining my 1928A1 which has matching serial numbers and British proof marks. This topic has been covered before on the old board. Thanks to Lionhart, who directed me to page 24 of the book (1982) "The Thompson Submachinegun" by Roger A. Cox, where Cox states the folowing "... Also, Numrich imported large numbers of 1928A1 Thompsons from England during the 1950's and stamped the "N.A.C." logo after their serial numbers as well. Generall, the only way a collector can determine if a "N.A.C." gun is an original gun imported from Britain or a remake is by the presence of British proofs. If it is British proofed, it probably was always a complete, original gun which was imported as such by Numrich, not a parts gun." If the Thompson has a "N.A.C" prefix to the serial number the gun is assembled from parts. Also, you may recall Mr. Gordon Haagstad (spelling) wrote an article in the Thompson collector news about a NAC prefix gun he examined in the J. Curtis Earl museum and opined it was a parts gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gijive Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 I believe Cox's book makes mention of some of these WWII variety Thompsons that were imported by Numrich in the early 1950's and marked with the NAC suffix. It may be an all original Savage made gun that saw overseas service, returned to the US, was refurbished by Numrich and sold to a law enforcement agency. Nothing to puke about. If the receiver and grip frame serial numbers match it probably was an original gun and not made from leftover parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 Hawknest, Well, you are of course correct, but I guess the confusion might lie with the word "assembled." Some might have been complete while others required additional componets to complete. The presence of a British proof does not necessarily mean that the gun ever left the U.S. though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21 smoker Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 Hawknest,...I agree with your take on the NAC suffix guns.I own a Savage 28,Brit proofed,1st prod run,etc. Even the buttstock swivel inlet is filled..ala British refit...it is my understanding Numrich reimported these late 40s-early50s as complete guns and had to stamp the NAC to meet import restrictions.my .02,out. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle Posted May 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 Now that I have started breathing again, let me first say I appreciate everyone's comments. I'll get to see the gun tomorrow. It is my understanding that the "US Model" has not been ground off and that the gun wears the appropriate US military inspector marks. I don't know if there are any British proof marks. My local dealer, Steave Wayman, spoke to Nick Tilota about the gun. Like yall, Nick confirmed that came through Numrich. Now this gun has matching upper and lower serial numbers. If the gun left the Savage factory as a complete gun, entered the US ordnance system, was acquired by Numrich after the war and refurbished prior to sale to police deprtment or something, then I'm fine with gun. And isn't that the most likely story. Nick apparently implied to my dealer that Numrich "assembled" these guns but I still don't think he means "assembled" in the same sense as what they did with the Colt receiver and parts. In either case, Nick didn't feel the gun's value was compromised in any way. Steave agreed. I'll post a picture tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill in VA Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 FWIW, a fellow I shoot with has a NAC M1 TSMG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Jr Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 Kyle, You will be alright. Sounds like a neat gun. We WANT PICTURES!!!! AF QUOTE The presence of a British proof does not necessarily mean that the gun ever left the U.S. though. I read that statement somewhere too, perhaps in Hill's book, but I think thats a crock of shit. One question: WHY would the US or anyone in the US stamp british proof marks on a gun (with british roll stamps, I might add)in this country that was never over there. The british stamped the guns when they were done using them and PRIOR to shipping them back. So I question the validity of the statement that there are guns that are british proofed that never left the US. I bet one of our Thompson experts saw a gun that was brit proofed and assumed it never left the country or was told it never left the country, but couldn't really prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21 smoker Posted May 6, 2004 Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 Another point to consider about Brit proof marks...is that below the Crown is the stamp of the House and the inspector who proofed it,`House of Enfield` etc.That would seem to confirm these Thompsons were in England,my .02,out. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle Posted May 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 Hope this works... NAC Savage The GEG mark is there. The "flaming bomb" is in the upper left. Looks like the "RLB" is overstamped. I don't know what is below the main serial number. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted May 6, 2004 Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 John Jr, Yah. It is probably the fanciful tales cooked up by Ian Hogg, W.H.E. Smith, R. Cox, etc. Just because a Brit-proofed TSMG never saw the hold of a liberty ship, troop ship, or the bloomin Queen Mary, doesn't mean that the tiny character marks added on this side of the pond diminish the perceived romanticism of the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle Posted May 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 Here's the left side... NAC Savage Left Side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle Posted May 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 And the right side... NAC Savage Right Side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Jr Posted May 6, 2004 Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 I cant see the pictures, you want me to post what you sent Kyle? AF, If they have brit proofs, they were in british hands. End of story. Jr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle Posted May 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 You can try John but the board won't let me into the http side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Jr Posted May 6, 2004 Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 http://www.cswnet.com/~luther/1.jpg http://www.cswnet.com/~luther/2.jpg http://www.cswnet.com/~luther/3.jpg http://www.cswnet.com/~luther/4.jpg http://www.cswnet.com/~luther/5.jpg http://www.cswnet.com/~luther/6.jpg http://www.cswnet.com/~luther/7.jpg http://www.cswnet.com/~luther/8.jpg There ya go! Jr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle Posted May 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 Thanks John! Okay guys...concentrate on the next to last picture. What's this guns story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Jr Posted May 6, 2004 Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 Here is my opinion (and I don't know everything so remember that). The Safety and rocker are the pin style and should be the paddles ( no problem there, $80 from sarco and thats fixed). Barrel has been replaced and that has to be the best compensator I have ever seen, plus the comp pin looks in the white, so I figure the bbl has been replaced along with the compensator. Looks mighty good and this is not any problem either. I don't think the NAC thing is a problem, it adds character to the gun and almost some history. Do the lower and upper match? Again, NICE GUN! Take care Jr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Posted May 6, 2004 Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 Beautiful, Kyle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle Posted May 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 Upper and Lower have matching SNs. Steave Wayman also believed the barrel had been replaced because it has a slightly different shading. I undersand all these guns were rebuilt. In fact, I'm happy it was rebuilt 'cause hopefully it means the gun might have seen some action. What I don't want is a throw together bunch of off-spec spare parts that someone cobbled together 20 years after WW2 ended. I don't think that's what I have here but I frankly don't know my ass from a hole in ground in this regard. Thanks again for posting the pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD. Posted May 6, 2004 Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 Kyle, I believe John, Jr. is right on point. It is hard to tell from the pictures but it very well may be a re-barrel (white pin - good eye). I do wonder if the rear sight may have been upgraded from the L type to the Lyman Adjustable given the serial number. This is just a thought, I have nothing to substantiate an upgrade took place. Remember, these guns were built to fight a war, not to collect. I believe parts were installed throughout the production run as available. I do not know enough about how the rivets should look to give an opinion if I were actually looking at it. The military and acceptance markings give it character. The NAC markings have been well documented - nothing new here. I can't make out all of the markings, but I don't see anything that would cause me to worry. The Model and Serial Number markings look good. I believe the upper and lower match so this is a good sign this gun saw very little action or was involved in an arsenal rebuild program. Any other experts want to chime in. Let's make this a learning experience for everyone. Thanks for sharing the pictures Kyle. I think you did ok. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle Posted May 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 Thanks for your comments Tom. Actually the leaf sight is correct for this serial number. The switch to the plain L sight did not occur until ~ SN 400,000 in Feb/Mar-1942. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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