Rare Stens Info

[froster]

I was just thinking that maybe you guys would like to hear a little about the Long Branch stens. Did you know that the Long Branch arsenal made only 120,000 Stens, all Mk2? They were numbered in lots of 10,000 , with L suffixes on the lot numbers, 12 being the last lot apparently. I've seen one with 11L on it. Some were made for a Chinese contract and they are distinguished by having their English info on the bottom of the mag well and Chinese characters on the top. The top line says "Si Ten" ; the middle says "Hand held machine gun" and the bottom says "Ca Na Da Made". Anyone care? Some of the characters are used as words and some are just used for their sounds.

[21 smoker]

froster,.. I own a Longbranch with the Chinese markings like you describe...the story I heard at the time of purchase was that a lot of these went to the Singapore police..hense the foreign markings and very few made it back to this side of the big pond...don`t know how much of this is factual,but it makes a good story... it was my first NFA and is still fun to shoot...lots of accessories to collect...that`s half the fun..my .02,out. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif

[froster]

The Chinese contract Stens were made for the Chinese to fight the Japs and could only have been supplied to Singapore after the war was over since that enemy had Singapore occupied until at least very near the end. I wish I knew how many of the 120000 were chinese. There is a book that lists much of Canada's ww2 production but a lot of good stuff is left out. What lot # is yours?

[21 smoker]

froster,..mine is lot 10L4140...I figured they went off to war and then wound up in the police inventory.This one is a York tube gun,however there is rumor that this company didn`t always chop up the original receiver and just registered the real one as a tube receiver...cause both the magwell and the receiver numbers match.Other STens I have by other manufacturers don`t,just my .02,out. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif

[froster]

I wish I knew the numbers on the Chinese contract guns and I forgot to ask an old guy who might know yesterday. Did you know that Long Branch made 1200000 #4 rifles, too? The Inglis factory made Hi Powers and Brens in 8mm for the Chinese. The original Sten receivers were not numbered and in Canada the mag well is the registered part.

[Bisley45]

I've seen two Stens Both Mark III's made by longbranch. Or am I incorect in thinking LB is longbranch?

 

BB

[21 smoker]

You are right,LB is Longbranch,and these STens tend to be better made because all operations were done inhouse...no bombing in Canada...same goes for the Hipowers...mine functions better the the post war Belgium made,just some thoughts,out. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif

[froster]

I haven't heard of Long Branch Mk3 Stens. Any Long Branch product should have the arsenal name written out on it besides the little b-in-the-

L logo so maybe what you saw were reworked guns. Long Branch made loop and T stocks of course and I saw a factory prototype loop type pistol grip with no butt. I have a photo of it. I have made an improved stock from a T stock giving a straight comb and a pistol grip. Long Branch made the best and nicest Stens but they didn't have the rust protective paint over the parkerizing that the Brit made ones did.

Here's a story: A friend wrote a magazine article for the then new International Militaria magazine in 96 about how he was called by a WW2 vet of the Pacific Coast Mountain Rangers in BC to come and buy his old http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/sad.gif issue Win 94 or P17 rifle some years before. When he got it he was also given a barely used Sten. He was too afraid to keep it, he wrote so he said he dumped it off the ferry.

Here's another: In a book about Canadian Normandy campaign vets there was the tanker whose Sherman was disabled near some enemy. Sitting in the turret he reached for his Sten which he said he had left untended for weeks on the top. Then he realized it was full of dirt and wouldn't work, but he managed to make it out of there.

In the Korean War my dad was an army weapon tech near the front. He was issued a rifle which he left under his cot and got a Sten for himself which he customized by welding part of a magazine onto the bottom of the mag well for a forward grip. I also spoke to a Korea vet who was a phone lineman who was offered a rifle or a Sten but was not satisfied until he could get a 1911 to carry when he was doing repairs. One time he was pinned down and nearly killed by some Yanks with a fifty on a halftrack.

Have any of you seen a six groove barrel made by LB for the Mk2 like the one I saw that was torched on both ends so the middle 4" was salvaged for use?

[stencollector]

I have been involved with several hundred ex-Cdn issue Stens and can add the following observations re the Longbranch stens.

First, the confusion regarding the Mk3 stens. The small LB markings on the mk3 stood for Lines Brothers, who assembled all the mk3 stens. There was a Nato Stock Number listed in the Cdn Parts manual for the Mk3 so they must have found their way into post Cdn service, although I have never seen one.

The highest number that I have had for the Cdn stens was 12L6950. I have a pair with sequential numbers 12L6835 and 6836. There were reportedly about 6000 uncompleted stens at the end of the war so they went into stores and this is supposed to put the production number up to around 133,000. I have had a few with no serial number, just a XR followed by two or three digits. I don't know if these are part of the final 6000.

By what I have seen, somewhere in 44 around the mid 11L series, all Cdn stens are marked with the Chinese script. I have never seen a 1945 marked sten that does not have the Chinese script.

The following is a rough guide to the production of the Cdn stens:

1942: 0L and 1L series and into the 2L series. Somewhere in the 2Ls the factory went to spot welds on the body vice the rough welds on the early stens. The mag housings were smooth finished by making it from one piece of metal vice the early ones where the rectangular mag housing piece was welded to the tubular portion of the mag housing. Many of the 42s can be found with British broadarrow markings as they were on British contract. The Cdn ones were marked with the broadarrow surrounded by a C

1943: production went from 2L to 9L. All were smooth finish.

1944: 10L to high 11L. Starting in the late 11L all were chinese marked

1945: high 11L to 12L. All CH script.

Note that all of this is only a guide. I have seen rough welds in the 3L series, and saw a 43 dated mag housing on an 11L CH script. I guess that when they would reach the bottom of the barrel they would end up using previous years production parts on current production.

The earliest LongBranch I have is serial 0L18.

Re rifle production, LB production ended somewhere around 96L (mid 50s production) so total production is around 960,000 plus around 20,000 of the Cno7 .22 cal variant.

Hopefully this clears up some of the questions regarding Cdn production.

 

Rob

 

[koldt]

I think this may be appropriate to this discussion. I too have a Mk2 Longbranch Sten, and a bunch of Longbranch No4 Enfields as well. But I just went to the Toronto area on business and went to the site formally known as the Longbranch Arsenal. Not much is left of it other than the water tower in the middle of the grounds. I took a bunch of pics so here are just 4.

The arsenal site is basically in the city of Mississauga, a suburb now on the west end of Toronto. It is in the area know as Longbranch and a lot of the businesses and civic buildings are marked/named as such. There is also a Longbranch Avenue.

1. Street sign.

2. Longbranch site. Cleared except for the water tower and some concrete where once was the parking lots.

3. City reclamation sign. Think it has been there for awhile.

4. Concrete backstop overgrown with weeds. Fully shot up, and I am told it was used as the function test area.

 

http://www3.telus.net/hansonk/longbranch.jpg

[froster]

Thanks to the last two posters for their contributions. However, I am sure that 1945 Lee Enfields got into the 120L range and I will check with my local collector friends. I can't remember the number range on the Korean war era production, but have you all noticed how nicely finished they were, being as nice as commercial sporting rifles?

 

I have not had luck trying to view those images posted on sites as little x- s in white boxes. I wonder if the site could post them differently so there would be no trouble that way. With these terminals those attachments haven't worked at any site.

[koldt]

froster, I have a NIB 1950 dated #4 Long Branch manufactured Enfield that has a 93L serial number. Matter of fact here it is along with our Canadian 1950 pattern webbing. The "blobby" stuff on the #4 is just the original cosmoline.

I hope I am not getting too far off topic. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/blink.gif Actually, also shows the Canadian Inglis manufactured Browning Mk1* High Power as well. I can hardly wait to get the Enfield stock chopped, sporterized and ready for the moose season.

File is a bit large, sorry.

 

http://www3.telus.net/hansonk/koreastuff.jpg

Edited September 12, 2004 by koldt

[stencollector]

I also have an unfired 1950 LongBranch serial number 93L97XX. While on a Sovereignty operation in the arctic, I observed a 1956 dated receiver in the 96L range.

Wartime production ended somewhere after the 90L range. This is the range many of the Cno4mk1* (T) s can be found fitted with the REL no32 scopes.

Koldt; you'll be Bubbas girlfriend if you cut a new unnissued LB; I am certain there are laws against this. Now quit trying to wind people up. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[froster]

Hello again, guys. I have spoken to my local collector friend and he has a book written by the director of Long Branch summarizing it's operations after the war. Apparently they did stop making #4s in the 93 L range. Early in 1945 they were preparing to make #5 rifles. They had also made the shoulder stocks for the "carbine" Inglis Hi Powers . Before they could start the #5s they got an order to make 300000 Mauser firing pins. Before they did that they got the order to shut down. When I can I will look at the book and pass on to you any important stuff.

Speaking of #4s , have any of you heard of the new #4s being sold by an Australian company? They have built in scope bases, of Weaver type I think and are sporter style with Savage style headspacing and are available in 308 and 7.62x39. They are also expensive.

[MRCLARK]

Some more pics of Longbranch and Inglis

 

enjoy

 

http://www.pbase.com/mrclark/long_branch_factory

 

 

 

http://www.pbase.com/mrclark/inglis_factory_