usmc25 Posted December 31, 2020 Report Share Posted December 31, 2020 Hey guys, I recently had someone offer to trade me his Winchester M12 plus $500 cash for one of my ARs, and I just came here for knowledge on the subject of the M12 as Ive never really been into it. He says the gun was produced in 1941, has no ordnance markings, and was a M12 he made look like a trench gun by adding the heat shield and a 1917 GI bayonet. Regardless, I think adding a slam fire to the collection will be neat, but I just was wondering if anyone could help me figure out what Im getting myself into. The stock set seems to be in pretty rough shape with a coupe cracks Thanks in advance Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petroleum 1 Posted December 31, 2020 Report Share Posted December 31, 2020 How much is the AR worth you would be trading?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMGguy Posted December 31, 2020 Report Share Posted December 31, 2020 Right, pretty rough shape. It has a civilian magazine tube on it, and the butt stock is not from a model 12, which usually has a walnut stock with a pistol grip. Can't tell much more without knowing the serial number. Better pics would be helpful. Serial numbers should always match, with the number on the bottom front of the receiver matching that on the underside of the barrel assembly. The model 12 is ruggedly reliable, but it's not a simple design. The action should be smooth and positive. A model 12 with problems will not be easily rectified by an amateur. An Ithaca 37 it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc25 Posted December 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2020 Would you guys recommend backing out? I’m trading an AR I put together that cost me $850. I’ll ask for the serial number Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petroleum 1 Posted December 31, 2020 Report Share Posted December 31, 2020 (edited) First i totally agree with the TSM post. Is the barrel a factory cyl or cut down?? Those stocks were typically used on hunting guns. imo its not even a good conversion. The only thing imo that would give it value is if its an original 1941 riot with a matching factory cyl 20 barrel. If the bayonet is a vintage 1917 Winchester its worth the price of your AR by itself.also if the bayonet mount is a vintage WW2 issue it is worth your AR by itself too. Better photos would help. Edited December 31, 2020 by Petroleum 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc25 Posted December 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2020 First i totally agree with the TSM post. Is the barrel a factory cyl or cut down?? Those stocks were typically used on hunting guns. imo its not even a good conversion. The only thing imo that would give it value is if its an original 1941 riot with a matching factory cyl 20 barrel. If the bayonet is a vintage 1917 Winchester its worth the price of your AR by itself.also if the bayonet mount is a vintage WW2 issue it is worth your AR by itself too. Better photos would help. Ill get some pictures of the bayonet, but the serial numbers on the gun do not match and the stock is odd Thanks for all the help guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim c 351 Posted December 31, 2020 Report Share Posted December 31, 2020 Can't tell from the pictures but if the vent handguard is original you could probably get $400.00 for it.A 1917 bayonet could get you $200.00 or more.You could sell the stripped gun for $200.00 or more.Cash $500.00Hand guard $400.00Bayonet $200.00Gun $200.00Total $ 1,300.00Is this any help?Jim C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petroleum 1 Posted December 31, 2020 Report Share Posted December 31, 2020 Jim...there is a WW2 hand guard on GB that is approaching $400 with 5 days to go. A Winchester 1917 flaming bomb marked bayonet with the correct scabbard just went for $800 a couple of months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeRanger Posted December 31, 2020 Report Share Posted December 31, 2020 (edited) But repops of the handguard and bayonet are worth a lot less than the originals would have been.The bayonet is quite possibly the real thing.The handguard quite possibly is not.There is a lot of info on this board about correct markings on a genuine handguard, somewhat less on the bayonet.Time to do some research. Edited December 31, 2020 by StrangeRanger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc25 Posted December 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2020 Thanks for all the responses and information guys, very much appreciated. Just got home and Ill dig into some research on the bayonet, but here are some pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petroleum 1 Posted January 1, 2021 Report Share Posted January 1, 2021 (edited) Its a vintage Remington 1917 bayonet. They do not bring the same money as the Winchester. I bought one recently for $225i in excellent condition with a Vietnam era plastic scabbard. This one is not in great condition but still a nice piece. Edited January 1, 2021 by Petroleum 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMGguy Posted January 1, 2021 Report Share Posted January 1, 2021 Frankly, I wouldn't buy this one with someone else's money. Agree, every collection has room for a nice M12 because it's such a classic. There are so many better guns out there, whether they're military or civilian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc25 Posted January 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2021 Thanks for all the information and tips guys. I went to checkout the gun and ended up buying it for a couple hundred. I couldnt say no to that. I cleaned it up and it looks much better. I also shot it today and it was an absolute joy. Runs like a champ. Disassembled and cleaned it after and everything looks to be in good shape internal wise. I think it will make a fun project gun to work on here and there, and just a cool piece to have in the collection. I plan on just selling the bayonet. Thanks for all the info guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMGguy Posted January 2, 2021 Report Share Posted January 2, 2021 How could you lose for $200? Congrats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petroleum 1 Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 Just an FYI...https://www.gunbroker.com/item/888138978 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsonlmg41 Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 People have gone bayonetsh*t crazy! https://www.gunbroker.com/item/884379285 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc25 Posted January 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 I ended up selling the bayonet to a close friend, I still have the heat shield and it is definitely a reproduction sadly. The action is the smoothest Ive personally ever experienced with a pump shot gun, this gun rocks. Im glad I bought it! Truly a joy to shoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baltimoreed11754 Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 (edited) You got a great deal on your faux trench usmc. I don’t have a problem with a knockoff. It does need a lower swivel and a sling. I’ve always believed that if a rifle or shotgun has swivels it needs a sling and if it’s got a bayonet mount it needs a bayonet. Imo. They are a very slick shotgun. I built my knockoff M12 trench for a lot less than the heat shield that petroleum posted. Liked my M12 so much I’ve started on a riot gun build. Edited January 5, 2021 by Baltimoreed11754 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baltimoreed11754 Posted April 20, 2021 Report Share Posted April 20, 2021 (edited) I borrowed a buds facing tool kit and cut and faced my donor 1925 M12 today. Also faced the bbl on a 1894 Marlin that I built into a Trapper. My M12 has been apart so long I couldn’t remember how to get it back together. Anyone know about polychokes? I want to reuse the bead that was on my donor bbl but I need to know the dia and tpi. Looks like this. Going to sling it just because I like slings and I have found a few police dept M12’s with them. I think this is how I’ll do the upper swivel. Went ahead and installed a brass bead on my gun as I couldn’t find out the size/tpi of the polychoke bead. Going to redo the butt this week and mill the lower swivel. Have to get rid of the stain in it from the price sticker that must have been on for years. Started working on the buttstock refinish and epoxied the upper swivel to my spare bbl band. Trying to match the color of my pump handle is being difficult. My usual Birchwood Casey red walnut is too red so I’ve added some brown to it. Try again tomorrow. Edited May 4, 2021 by Baltimoreed11754 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baltimoreed11754 Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) Did some lower swivel inletting on my M12 stock. Edited May 5, 2021 by Baltimoreed11754 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petroleum 1 Posted May 6, 2021 Report Share Posted May 6, 2021 Nice work...where did you find the swivel?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baltimoreed11754 Posted May 6, 2021 Report Share Posted May 6, 2021 (edited) I robbed the ‘03/Thompson swivel from another stock. Think I’ve got my M12 build done. Not bad for a 94 year old. Added her younger [1940] brother. Edited May 6, 2021 by Baltimoreed11754 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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