Bayrain Posted July 8, 2021 Report Share Posted July 8, 2021 I was previously looking into getting parts kit to build a 1918 BAR gun, with the machined 80% reciever that I could order. Was missing a few parts and let the bid go. Need to build a semi automatic, not a SOT. I've been in the market for purchasing a BAR for my "collection" but they are double the price than when Ohio Ordnance originally made Repos. Figured it would be cheaper just to buy a parts kit and assemble it myself. Paying close to $8k for a semi automatic rifle is kinda way too high. Any chance it would be possible to utilize a Browning 30-06 rifle as well for a "clone"? Also where to get spare parts for a BAR gun as well, did find:https://www.bmgparts.com/bar.html But no response from the owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyDixon Posted July 8, 2021 Report Share Posted July 8, 2021 where are you located ? all BAR stuff has gone way up in price,, first finding an 80% bar reciever then machining it for semi only really takes some advanced skills and knowledge, just sayn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jl7422 Posted July 8, 2021 Report Share Posted July 8, 2021 Lots of work left to do on an 80% receiver. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayrain Posted July 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2021 Yeah I have a gunsmith who will be able to machine out the reminder of a 80% BAR receiver but I'm located in Arizona. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyDixon Posted July 9, 2021 Report Share Posted July 9, 2021 keep us posted on your progress.. just sayn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe H Posted July 10, 2021 Report Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) Bayrain, You are looking at a major project. I know, I've done it. The BAR was not designed to be built as a one-off on manual machines but it can be done. Be sure your machinist has a good set of plans for the receiver so he knows what he is getting into. Remember you have to incorporate all the denials required by the AFT so that you are not making a machine gun. You have to provide the machinist with details of the modifications required before he starts work. The gas system will need mods. to work with the semi auto FCG. The PO 80% receiver requires significant machine work and some long reach tooling to get into that deep receiver. The only drawings that I found that were usable for a build is here: https://www.wwiibarman.com/collections/blueprints-drawings-and-technical-items There are many Dwgs floating around the internet, some inaccurate but mostly unusable except for one original 1918 dwg with the receiver on one sheet, accurate, but very difficult to use. The details of the OOW semi patent is attached. Their patent ran out a couple of years ago. You can replicate the OOW FCG with some new parts and parts from an M1 carbine FCG. IMO if you are not capable of doing the work yourself, forget it. Check with OOW and see if they are taking orders as it will be far cheaper in the long run. At one time they offered complete semi receivers to use with your parts kit. Good luck with your project, JoeOHIO ORD PATENT.pdf Edited July 10, 2021 by Joe H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssjtristan Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 I hear about these semi auto builds, not oow, but have never come across blueprints, kits, manuals etc. And I've never seen one online or in person so I will assume they are purely fictitious, made of hopes and dreams.What about an 80% type build into an MOR style rifle? No idea what that would need but that could be a good start.If somebody has a manual or directions on a semi build thats not an OOW that would be amazing. I really hope such a thing exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe H Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 (edited) I hear about these semi auto builds, not oow, but have never come across blueprints, kits, manuals etc. And I've never seen one online or in person so I will assume they are purely fictitious, made of hopes and dreams. If somebody has a manual or directions on a semi build thats not an OOW that would be amazing. I really hope such a thing exists. "I hear about these semi auto builds, not oow, but have never come across blueprints, kits, manuals etc. And I've never seen one online or in person so I will assume they are purely fictitious, made of hopes and dreams". see my post above, not at all fictitious! "What about an 80% type build into an MOR style rifle? No idea what that would need but that could be a good start." What's a MOR build? "If somebody has a manual or directions on a semi build thats not an OOW that would be amazing. I really hope such a thing exists." It doesn't exist If you want to learn how to build a 1918 BAR semi go over to the weapons Guild: https://weaponsguild.com/forum/index.php?board=47.0 Joe Edited July 23, 2021 by Joe H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damifino Posted July 24, 2021 Report Share Posted July 24, 2021 (edited) Yeah nuthin but a myth. This is my own home made trigger housing with modified M1 Carbine FCG parts and my own hammer. These mimic the OOW patent drawings, but are my own interpretation. As we speak, I am fitting it into a repaired receiver. There are no production made semi parts, except for OOW, that I am aware of. Philly Ord may make more unfinished receivers in the future. I thought I would try to make one after I got mine up and running. Too many other projects in line now. The MOR (manually operated rifle) by Group Ind? A bolt action BAR. I remember those. Hi Joe, hope you are feeling better Edited July 24, 2021 by damifino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssjtristan Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) JoeThe MOR is a manually operated rifle. Group Industries made them. I want to say they made like 60+ but I'm not sure. Interesting idea. I would think somebody could make these again. Note they are marked BROWNING MOR RIFLE 1918A2. The RIFLE at the end is redundant, just interesting to me. https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/_m__rare___fine_group_industries_m_o_r__1918a2_b_a-lot472425.aspx I will definitely be looking into the weapons builders post. Thanks Joe. Damfino, very cool semi auto build. I would love a semi auto but I don't want to pay the going rate of an oow A3. Edited July 25, 2021 by Ssjtristan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyDixon Posted July 26, 2021 Report Share Posted July 26, 2021 do the phily 80% came with the long , square hole for the operating slide allready broached ?? im a 76 yr old tool maker, owned own shop 40 years ,and the tooling , fixture for that type of cut is unbelavable, ive seen some photos of it being done, the broach tool was 6 feet long ! the broach machine ,a one of a kind was 12 feet long ! one time i took an 80% to an EDM,, electron discharge machine,, the shop owner quoted something like 10,000 set up feee and 1000 each in lots of 10 ! this is in silicon valley home of hundreds of machine shops and real talented people,, bite the bullet and buy an OOW A3,,, just sayn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssjtristan Posted July 26, 2021 Report Share Posted July 26, 2021 No, the operating slide opening is not there. I don't believe they are in the MOR either. That probably keeps the ATF happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe H Posted July 26, 2021 Report Share Posted July 26, 2021 do the phily 80% came with the long , square hole for the operating slide allready broached ?? im a 76 yr old tool maker, owned own shop 40 years ,and the tooling , fixture for that type of cut is unbelavable, ive seen some photos of it being done, the broach tool was 6 feet long ! the broach machine ,a one of a kind was 12 feet long ! one time i took an 80% to an EDM,, electron discharge machine,, the shop owner quoted something like 10,000 set up feee and 1000 each in lots of 10 ! this is in silicon valley home of hundreds of machine shops and real talented people,, bite the bullet and buy an OOW A3,,, just sayn Billy, IBM came up with the "broach" idea during WW II. The broached slot went the whole length of the receiver. It cut through the threads in the rear end. Prior to approval for the full length slot the rear threads were maintained, which involved a lot of specialized hand work. I've attached a pic of the broached threads in the rear of a WWII receiver. I didn't have the budget for broaching so I drilled 4 - 1/8" holes in the corners and milled out the waste, file work in the corners as required. Interior done with long reach tee slot cutter. Rear hole smaller than slot to provide AFT denial for the slide. Luckily I had enough headroom on my WWII war dept tagged Jackson mill. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyDixon Posted July 26, 2021 Report Share Posted July 26, 2021 to joe h. wonderful ! job you did, i appreciate you understand what im talking about,,nice info about the IBM machining,,, ive done a lot of work for IBM and dad an m1 carbine with IBM< marked barrel in my office that ive shown to IBM engineers, they look at it in disbelief,,then again to pay a machinist around 30.00 an hour its just push push and try not to do hand file or armstrong broach cutting,,,if you available come work for me ? best, billy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayrain Posted July 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2021 Wow that's great. I was wondering why the M1918 BAR was just so difficult to build, even there being a semi auto Browning BAR hunting rifle that has no parts at all that match. I would just love to build one without it being so difficult, especially with an 80% you could just use whatever bolt you wanted to right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssjtristan Posted July 29, 2021 Report Share Posted July 29, 2021 Can anybody get in touch with JUNKYARDSLUG? I sent him a message a long time ago. I would really like to hear from him. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe H Posted July 29, 2021 Report Share Posted July 29, 2021 I'm pretty sure this is his website: https://www.wwiibarman.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayrain Posted July 29, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2021 Yeah I had previously tried contacting him a couple of months ago and last month, and no response . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyDixon Posted July 29, 2021 Report Share Posted July 29, 2021 some of the old guys who are somewhat experts in this field dont always answer e-mails from unknowns asking strange questions, we are too busy working on projects and too old to spend much time on e-mails, just sayn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssjtristan Posted July 30, 2021 Report Share Posted July 30, 2021 Thanks guys. I'll try the website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cammer427 Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 I LIVE DOWN THE ROAD FROM MIKE BROWN HE OWNED GROUP IND. HERE IN LOUISVILLE KY. I ASKED HIM ABOUT HIS DESIGN ATF APPROVED 1918A2 M. O. R. HE SAID HE ONLY CUT SLIDE SLOTS HALFWAY FORWARD ROTO BROACHED FROM REAR CUT SLIDE IN HALF USED REAR PART TO CONNECT SLIDE TO BOLT LINK DID NOT CUT THRU FRONT OF RECIVER FOR PISTON SO NO WAY GAS CAN GET THRU TO OPERATE IT . OPEN BOLT IS LEGAL AS ONLY SINGLE SHOT AS PER A.T.F.E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimB Posted October 25, 2021 Report Share Posted October 25, 2021 PO is about the only source left for 80% 1918 receivers and that's only if he's still doing them, in the past he would do a small run of them when he secured enough orders but that can take awhile. BAR Parts have gone crazy high over the past decade or so, everything is still pretty much available just sky high now Seen several semi builds over the yearsone was an open bolt built in the 70s from a cut receiver, the other two were closed bolt riflesall this was Years before Landies did his first one As has been discussed the PO frames can be done without massive tooling but its going to take serious hand work, think Darra builds in Northern Pakistanpractically anything can be done with little more than a drill press, files and stones Sources...Okay, have an in the White untouched Philly Ord receivercouple stocks both bakalite and Walnutbolt assm, trigger groups, cocking slide, action slide and gas tubeCouple barrels chamber sleeved to .308I would be open to unloading some or all of it, was just going to assemble a nice dummy anyways financial logistics on such a buildWell 900 odd bones on just a Philly 80%figure it this way folks, to just get your parts and 80% you will be 2500 into that project for top condition components these days Last cut 1918 frame I had, it was an over lapping front and rear half quick went at like 1400 ?that was some 7 years agohad some 1950s cast blanks, last one went at 375.00 several years back Years ago in the late 70s I had a semi Johnson "LMG"those were much easier builds, you just used a modified 1941 Johnson rifle receiverNumrich had about all the LMG parts new old stock back then cheapSARCO sold stripped rifle receiversOld gun hack I knew in ND built a handful, serious head turners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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