Can anyone explain this price?

[StrangeRanger]

It seems WAY out of line to me

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/83/1543/british-mark-v-sten-gun-fully-transferable-machine-gun

[BRMCII]

Well, in my view, there is no "line". Auctions are schizophrenic or at least bi-polar and prices often bear no relationship to what are perceived as "market" values, which can often appear pretty unreasonable, too.
Supply and demand is always a big part of pricing. Complicating the assessment of value in the collector MG market is the simple fact that the available numbers in the NFRTR of many collector types of MGs is unknown. However, there is more and more info and more and accurate estimates of registered MGs from many sources as the years go by, but whether this info affects prices is difficult to say. Scarcity takes a back seat to popularity most of the time.

From my observation of the market over many years, original MkV's are not prevalent in the registry which will boost the value of an example. How much is up to the buyer.

The buyer of this gun decided his market price and paid it.

Auctions are great fun, I think, and I have paid crazy money for several very difficult to find items simply because the opportunity was there, it was brief, I wanted them and I had the money muscle to do it. Still glad for the opportunity to get those items, too.

Why do you think the buyer paid that price for the Sten?

[StrangeRanger]

....Why do you think the buyer paid that price for the Sten?

 

Didn't follow the auction but there were obviously at least two bidders. I would suspect a dick-measuring contest amplified by the red mist

[MG08]

there is a huge economic driver going on- not just MGs but all collectible stuff. The investment world has created a lot of money for people and the trend from the current admin is to tax that money. People are looking to beat inflation fears by investing that stock / cash money in tangible assets that they feel will appreciate. As inflation depreciates the value of "money", the value of those tangible assets goes up ( hopefully). I have guys buying stuff that don't really know what it's "value" is- they just want it. Colt 601 ? Meh - write a check get the paper moving. Cars, coins, art, guns. Precious metals is a good example too. Those guys are either personally or though Proxy buying into the MG market. Add to that the fact that there area lot more people now. If you want to see crazy gun pricing - watch the Colt SAA and Winchester lever guns - Mgs are cheap by comparison. As higher costs drive lower income people out of the "expensive" market, those same people move into lower markets and drive up demand and prices. A cascade effect. Go look and see what CMP 1911A1s are selling for in the secondary market. Those clean Remington Rands are $2500 +, Colts are $3500 and up. "collector" pistols are in some cases pushing $10,000 and more. I have been picking up 1911s and M1 Carbines just because I can , and ran into some good inexpensive collectible ones. Then I started looking. Prices have, in my opinion doubled in the last year to year and a half. There are no "entry level" MGs any more. I remember selling Reisings for $900 ea. I had a crate of them. Anyway, Those auctions get to be a battle between two or more folks with plenty of money who want it. Simple. I know people who think nothing of dropping $50,000 on something they want - now. Last year at RIA, two guys bid a MP38/42 up to $50,000. Crazy money. This last time some one paid $10,000 for that stripped cut in half ANM2. I debated a $1500 bid just for the paper......

[APEXgunparts]

It seems WAY out of line to me

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/83/1543/british-mark-v-sten-gun-fully-transferable-machine-gun

 

Looking at the pictures closely, I have to question the welds between the tube and the fire control housing.

They don't look correct for an original C&R STEN MK5.

Here are pictures to reference against the pictures of the Mark 5 that sold at auction.

 

 

 

Even the MARK 2 looks different than what we see on this gun at auction.

 

 

Maybe I just haven't seen enough of them?

 

Richard

Edited September 16, 2021 by APEXgunparts

[BRMCII]

I @gree with your point about current economics, inflation, etc. There have been other auctions bringing crazy money without covid hysteria and inflation. Google up the Bruce Stern MG collection auction of some years back. That was a Dooley for high prices!

[maxfaxdude]

1) Continued de-valuation of the US dollar
2) A lot of cheap money floating around
3) Low interest rates
4) A pissing contest between bidders
5) Tax shelter
6) Increasing interest in all things collectable
7) Increasing US population
8) Increasing awareness that such guns can be purchased
9) Decreasing supply

These factors all drive prices higher...and barring US Congressional legislation that changes who can buy/sell/collect machineguns, they will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

Edited September 16, 2021 by maxfaxdude

[StrangeRanger]

Max,

I know for a fact (because I was bidding against you on them) that you've recently won at auction 2 much nicer SMGs at a much lower price and I've seen a few Lanchesters including the one I bought recently also go for a whole lot less as well. I'm not debating the increase in SMG costs, it's "intuitively obvious to the most casual observer". What I am wondering about is why this particular Sten went for so much. A Mk V may be fancier but it's still only a Sten and this one has been refinished and modified from the original configuration (no semi-auto capability.)

 

I just don't see this as a particularly exceptional example

[BRMCII]

We're all tilting at windmills trying to decipher the motivations of auction bidders. Can't be done......

[johnsonlmg41]

.

Edited January 18, 2022 by johnsonlmg41

[Robert Henley]

The money supply has increased substantially with the stimulus money circulating in the economy. There is upward pressure on prices as a result, i.e., inflation. The administration asserts it is transitory. I doubt that, but we'll see.

 

I know when I started collecting Title II firearms I wanted both (1) something I could shoot and (2) something that would be a good investment. Therefore, all my Title II firearms now are C&R guns. Anything that is limited in supply will go up in price if demand increases.

[MG08]

 

It seems WAY out of line to me

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/83/1543/british-mark-v-sten-gun-fully-transferable-machine-gun

 

Looking at the pictures closely, I have to question the welds between the tube and the fire control housing.

They don't look correct for an original C&R STEN MK5.

Here are pictures to reference against the pictures of the Mark 5 that sold at auction.

 

DSC01079.JPG

 

sten_mk5_trigger_housing_complete.jpg

 

Even the MARK 2 looks different than what we see on this gun at auction.

 

right-side.jpg

 

Maybe I just haven't seen enough of them?

 

Richard

 

Here is my original MK 5, C&R. you can compare welds, but different makers were most likely "different".

 

[APEXgunparts]

 

 

It seems WAY out of line to me

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/83/1543/british-mark-v-sten-gun-fully-transferable-machine-gun

 

Looking at the pictures closely, I have to question the welds between the tube and the fire control housing.

They don't look correct for an original C&R STEN MK5.

Here are pictures to reference against the pictures of the Mark 5 that sold at auction.

 

DSC01079.JPG

 

sten_mk5_trigger_housing_complete.jpg

 

Even the MARK 2 looks different than what we see on this gun at auction.

 

right-side.jpg

 

Maybe I just haven't seen enough of them?

 

Richard

 

Here is my original MK 5, C&R. you can compare welds, but different makers were most likely "different".

 

 

A very nice STEN MK5 you have there!

Thank you for sharing the pictures.

Note that the "tabs" from the fire control housing attach to the body / receiver tube by the use of spot welds.

These were made late in the war and were an improvement compared to the gas welding.

Here is info from the Imperial war museum page:

 

The Mk 5 Sten gun was a development of the Mk 2 (see FIR 6260). It was far less 'austere' in construction than its predecessor; featuring front and rear pistol grips and a wooden butt. Quality control over the manufacturing process was more strictly applied. As a result a Mk 5 took about twice as many man-hours to manufacture as a Mk 2. This change reflects Britain's improved position with regard to armaments by the time production of the Mk 5 commenced in February 1944. The Mk 5 Sten was assembled at two Royal Ordnance Factories: Theale, in Berkshire and Fazakerley in Lancashire. This gun is one of 357,603 Mk 5s made at the latter factory. It lacks the forward pistol grip, which was deleted from production in June 1945. It had been discovered that leverage produced by using this grip could weaken the catch retaining the barrel-nut, which joined the barrel to the receiver.

 

Carbine, Machine, Sten, 9mm Mk 5. © IWM (FIR 6272) IWM Non Commercial License

 

Note that the Imperial War Museum example has the 2 tabs spotted welded to the body / receiver tube, same as mine (pictured above).

The most recent images are the other attachment method (2 factories, 2 types of spot welded tabs)

The gun sold thru RIA was gas welded, and one tab appears to be missing.

ALSO, notice the slot for the charging handle!

The safety notch is in the MARK 2 location, the Mark 5 safety notch is right above the selector button.

There is something just not right about the RIA Mark 5.

 

Richard

 

 

[b_san]

 

The money supply has increased substantially with the stimulus money circulating in the economy. There is upward pressure on prices as a result, i.e., inflation. The administration asserts it is transitory. I doubt that, but we'll see.

What do you think will happen if they dump another 4-5 Trillion in imaginary $$'s into the economy?? We haven't seen anything yet (other than in 3rd world pisspots) if they get their way!

[hkg3k]

I have a limited knowledge of C&R STEN guns...but I've never seen one with that "blob of weld" at 12 o'clock on the receiver ring / tube junction just in front of the rear sight. Seen it on plenty of tube guns...is this legit for an original gun?

[Barry]

What does the

Xx1

10

On the rear sight indicate

Barry

[APEXgunparts]

It seems WAY out of line to me

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/83/1543/british-mark-v-sten-gun-fully-transferable-machine-gun

 

Having studied these images I think the buyer is going to be quite unhappy when the truth of the STEN is revealed.

It may be a C&R body / receiver tube, but it is not a MARK 5 part.

It appears that MARK 5 parts were added onto a MARK 2.

 

Richard

[johnsonlmg41]

.

Edited January 18, 2022 by johnsonlmg41

[Odinsravens]

Yep m2 rebuilt as a MK V - I am in Europe with different pricing and supply etc - but does look suspect however if it works got themselves a working sub machine gun

[yohuang]

Back a few years ago, I paid about $15k for a Long Branch Mk II. My friends said that I was crazy, "You paid too much for a Mk II, it was a $6000 item"... Actually, it was a involuntary action - not paying that, it would not come. No choice. And, almost all $6000 STEN on the market nowadays are tube guns, not original C&R.

It is a great gun though. After a few years, I don't care its cost anymore. Just enjoy the gun.

 

 

[Rekraps]

On 9/16/2021 at 9:16 PM, johnsonlmg41 said:

.

It seems that there is a quest for "Alternate" investing for those who have money. What this translates into is individuals with cash who are tired or weary of equities and/or real estate. They look to the collectible market, whether it be cars, Hummels, monster boxes of American Eagles, sports memorabilia etc. The list is endless, however once a specific "collectible" market is deemed a viable "alternate" investment, then word gets out and the money pours in, prices rise and it feeds on itself. And once individuals get into the market, they buy multiple items, impacting availability.

With respect to the MG market, I've collected guns and stuff for many, many years but did not get into the MG market until about 6 years ago when I began to consider alternate investments as describe above. Why MG's? Well, they are cool, I loved guns and from what I could tell, they held their value. Also, the pool of available items is fixed. Meanwhile, all you guys who had been in this for years and years watched in amazement as the prices did in fact, and continue to do so, increase at a rate that seems illogical. Suddenly it seemed, everyone wanted MG's... any MG's!

Actually, we should all be happy. Yes, even "entry" level SMGs like Mac's are now $10K +, but that is good. Shooters can still be had for those who want them, however the nice stuff is being scooped up as quickly as it comes to market and like me, being held as any other investment. I do shoot my guns, research the weapons and mostly appreciate the history and rarity of them. So my purchase process went like this, I decided to mostly focus on WW2 era open bolt SMG's, pistol caliber. Since it was an investment, I further decided to try and find quality pieces. Scouring the same sites as you guys, if something came up I acted quickly. As we have all heard, "you never buy to high, just too early". Since I don't flip guns, the actual item itself was more important than a few thousand dollars one way or another. 

How has this worked out? Well, based on prices I see at auctions and from private and commercial sellers, very good. 

 

[Rekraps]

On 11/19/2022 at 11:28 AM, yohuang said:

Back a few years ago, I paid about $15k for a Long Branch Mk II. My friends said that I was crazy, "You paid too much for a Mk II, it was a $6000 item"... Actually, it was a involuntary action - not paying that, it would not come. No choice. And, almost all $6000 STEN on the market nowadays are tube guns, not original C&R.

It is a great gun though. After a few years, I don't care its cost anymore. Just enjoy the gun.

 

 

That's a good looking gun.