1928 West Hurley Issue

[mbc230]

I am a new owner of a 1928 West Hurley that is currently in NFA Jail. I went up to see the firearm for the first time. I was going to try to disassemble it. I am by no means a gunsmith, but I do have experience with assembly and disassembly. So I was trying to remove the lower / frame and discovered that the Fire - Safety Select Switch is stuck in Fire and will not move at all. It is really stuck. I can only pull the bolt back halfway. I brought my PK Take Down tool to try and remove both switches as well as the pivot plate, but it is hard with so much force on the sear. I think the sear is stuck in down position locking the Fire - Safety Select Switch in "Fire" position. The Rocker Pivot / Full Auto - Single switch moves freely and I was able to get that out of the lower / frame, but the Fire - Safety Switch is just stuck in "Fire" and I can not for the life of me figure it out. I tried moving the Rocker Pivot / Full Auto - Single switch back to Single then to Full Auto with each time pulling the Bolt back and got nothing and with both times the bolt would only go back half way and then do nothing. I would like to take the gun apart, but that is keeping me from moving forward. I called the place I got it from and they claim they go through every firearm they get in and make sure everything works, but dealing with them was a fiasco and nightmare all rolled into one. So I am at a loss here. Any ideas from any expert would be appreciated. Thank you guys.

[mohawk64]

Do you have any experience with an open bolt gun?

[mohawk64]

Try setting switch on auto and safety on fire. Then try to pull the bolt back.

[mbc230]

 

Do you have any experience with an open bolt gun?

I would hope so since I own a Colt, which I have taken it apart no problem at all.

Edited May 26, 2022 by mbc230

[mbc230]

Try setting switch on auto and safety on fire. Then try to pull the bolt back.

I did both Full and Single and got the same result. The Bolt would only go halfway back. The Safety is stuck on Fire. Thank you for your assistance.

[giantpanda4]

Strangely, I found this weekend at TCA when I went to fire my NAC-38 that it would not rotate from fire to safe. Weird, and at the time I just swapped the lower and went on shooting. When I got home, I looked it over and it had Savage dimpled levers on it. The safety has a hole drilled part way through it crosswise for the sideplate that holds it in to fall in and it acts as a detent. Turns out the hole in the safety was too large or too deep, comparing with other parts, and the spring was stuck in the hole.

 

Botom line - try to lift the sideplate spring off the safety, then try to rotate it.

 

Just a guess....

[mbc230]

Strangely, I found this weekend at TCA when I went to fire my NAC-38 that it would not rotate from fire to safe. Weird, and at the time I just swapped the lower and went on shooting. When I got home, I looked it over and it had Savage dimpled levers on it. The safety has a hole drilled part way through it crosswise for the sideplate that holds it in to fall in and it acts as a detent. Turns out the hole in the safety was too large or too deep, comparing with other parts, and the spring was stuck in the hole.

 

Botom line - try to lift the sideplate spring off the safety, then try to rotate it.

 

Just a guess....

I appreciate it and I have tried that too and same results. The bolt will only go half way back. Thank you.

[mohawk64]

I had a westie m1. It stopped firing. I couldn't get it apart. It's issue was similar to this. I had to take the pivot plate off the side. I still couldn't get it apart. I wound up milling the trigger out. Then the small parts fell out. I replaced all with gi parts. No more problems

[Countryboy77]

I dont know what to tell you,everyone gave great advise ,pivot platw removal so parts are loose tgen try to remove the upper. Being in NFA jail it can still be sent out to be serviced but before doing anything you want to contact the seller before taking too much apart or altering anythinf so you dont void any terms. I do ask to post photos of everything when you get it open.when you say it cocks halfway is that the bolt you see moving with tge actuator or just the actuator? Wonder if its a westie tgat has eaten itself up on the inside we hear about? Maybe its one of those gunmachine speedbolts losing set screws or somthing. Definately arouses ones curiosity being a west hurley gun with their reputation.Theres a poll on here about having to work on the west hurley for west hurley owners.I would encourage you to post there too.What year range is it?

[anjong-ni]

I'm no gunsmith, but could it have been test-fired and put away uncleaned?

 

Possibly a very liberal dosage of a non-evaporating solvent poured liberally into the offending lower would loosen-up a recalcitrant component.

Douse, then wait. Time is your friend.

 

Perhaps then tap with soft rubber-hammer while inverted, in the hope that a spent primer will dislodge and fall out. ...Phil

Edited May 27, 2022 by anjong-ni

[mbc230]

I had a westie m1. It stopped firing. I couldn't get it apart. It's issue was similar to this. I had to take the pivot plate off the side. I still couldn't get it apart. I wound up milling the trigger out. Then the small parts fell out. I replaced all with gi parts. No more problems

This westie has a Savage Lower on it, but since I am not able to get it apart I am not able to see if it has been go through. I am thinking when they put it back together they could put the wrong springs in the wrong parts maybe? The bolt will go back with actuator, but only half way. I have confirmed that. I tried removing the pivot plate, but there is a lot of force on that sear I am guessing that is keeping the bolt from going all the way back.

[mbc230]

I dont know what to tell you,everyone gave great advise ,pivot platw removal so parts are loose tgen try to remove the upper. Being in NFA jail it can still be sent out to be serviced but before doing anything you want to contact the seller before taking too much apart or altering anythinf so you dont void any terms. I do ask to post photos of everything when you get it open.when you say it cocks halfway is that the bolt you see moving with tge actuator or just the actuator? Wonder if its a westie tgat has eaten itself up on the inside we hear about? Maybe its one of those gunmachine speedbolts losing set screws or somthing. Definately arouses ones curiosity being a west hurley gun with their reputation.Theres a poll on here about having to work on the west hurley for west hurley owners.I would encourage you to post there too.What year range is it?

 

I am not able to move the bolt back and yes the actuator comes with it. I do not know what pictures will do in this case. All the advise that has been given is perfect stuff, but what would keep the Bolt from only going back half way. The bolt should move back all the way with some resistance and not get stuck halfway. I have already spoken to the seller and at this point I am just asking for some ideas and I will go from there. Thank you.

Edited May 27, 2022 by mbc230

[Countryboy77]

Even if a lot of force tge pivot plate coukd be tapped out with a brass pin drive little by little.Remove the pivot lever.Try to tap out the safety after the pivot plate. Make sure the pivot plate isnt catching on the safety detent or the rocker pivot and tap that SOB out. Its a double smooth pin nothing to hold it in once the rocker is out both pins on the plate are smooth.

[Countryboy77]

When you pull the trigger does it move?does it seem to be pulling down the sear? The lower should slide partially off even if the sear is up .the only thing to prevent rearward travel would be the rocker and it should pull the bolt back some if its catching.Try tapping the lower with a block of wood against the magazine track to protect it. I just see nothing mechanical to keep it from budging.I woulf get a rubber hammer and try some persuasion .

[mbc230]

Even if a lot of force tge pivot plate coukd be tapped out with a brass pin drive little by little.Remove the pivot lever.Try to tap out the safety after the pivot plate. Make sure the pivot plate isnt catching on the safety detent or the rocker pivot and tap that SOB out. Its a double smooth pin nothing to hold it in once the rocker is out both pins on the plate are smooth.

 

The problem with trying to get the pivot plate off is I need a workbench and my SOT does not have that type of facility as they are strictly a gun range. So I am kinda limited on what I can do. I brought my PK take down tool and it was tough to get it removed with what I had with me. I was able to get the rocker pivot switch removed, but the safety switch was literally stuck in place.

 

When you pull the trigger does it move?does it seem to be pulling down the sear? The lower should slide partially off even if the sear is up .the only thing to prevent rearward travel would be the rocker and it should pull the bolt back some if its catching.Try tapping the lower with a block of wood against the magazine track to protect it. I just see nothing mechanical to keep it from budging.I woulf get a rubber hammer and try some persuasion .

 

The trigger is very hard to pull and that is the thing I think it could be when they re-assembled it they put the wrong springs in the wrong places. The lower will not budge at all. It is fixed in it's position at this point. I am no small guy and I am very strong, but I could not even get it to break loose. If I could at least get the lower to slide back I would think what you mentioned above would be feasible.

[mbc230]

I'm no gunsmith, but could it have been test-fired and put away uncleaned?

 

Possibly a very liberal dosage of a non-evaporating solvent poured liberally into the offending lower would loosen-up a recalcitrant component.

Douse, then wait. Time is your friend.

 

Perhaps then tap with soft rubber-hammer while inverted, in the hope that a spent primer will dislodge and fall out. ...Phil

 

I will bring my mallet when I go back to the Range where the Westie is at and try it, but I am lost at this point. Thank you for the advise.

Edited May 27, 2022 by mbc230

[TD.]

If I understand what you are saying, both fire control levers were in the forward positions (Full Auto & Fire) and the bolt was in the forward position when you tried to remove the frame from the receiver by pulling the trigger and depressing the frame latch button. My guess is the frame is very tight fitting on the receiver and may have to be helped with a rubber hammer to get it moving. I would not remove the fire control levers or the pivot plate with the frame and receiver together. I understand doing this can cause a bunch of problems and make disassembly very difficult, if not nearly impossible. If you removed one of the levers, I would try to re-insert it before doing anything else. Then I would depress the trigger and depress the frame latch button and give it a good whack with a rubber mallet.

 

I know all Thompson frames are supposed to be interchangeable. Theoretically true but false. Think manufacturing tolerances. Most/all West Hurley Thompson guns do not conform to GI specifications. Some frames fit loose, some very tight, and some not at all. The Savage frame may be the problem. Or not. Hopefully, the metal has not galled together. That would be a major problem.

 

If I misunderstood your issue, please disregard.

 

I would not do anything drastic. I would bet PK would take it in to disassemble the receiver and frame and diagnose the problem. Since it is in jail, now would be a good time to send it off, if necessary.

 

Good luck.

[mbc230]

If I understand what you are saying, both fire control levers were in the forward positions (Full Auto & Fire) and the bolt was in the forward position when you tried to remove the frame from the receiver by pulling the trigger and depressing the frame latch button. My guess is the frame is very tight fitting on the receiver and may have to be helped with a rubber hammer to get it moving. I would not remove the fire control levers or the pivot plate with the frame and receiver together. I understand doing this can cause a bunch of problems and make disassembly very difficult, if not nearly impossible. If you removed one of the levers, I would try to re-insert it before doing anything else. Then I would depress the trigger and depress the frame latch button and give it a good whack with a rubber mallet.

 

I know all Thompson frames are supposed to be interchangeable. Theoretically true but false. Think manufacturing tolerances. Most/all West Hurley Thompson guns do not conform to GI specifications. Some frames fit loose, some very tight, and some not at all. The Savage frame may be the problem. Or not. Hopefully, the metal has not galled together. That would be a major problem.

 

If I misunderstood your issue, please disregard.

 

I would not do anything drastic. I would bet PK would take it in to disassemble the receiver and frame and diagnose the problem. Since it is in jail, now would be a good time to send it off, if necessary.

 

Good luck.

 

T D Thank you for the wonderful advise. The BFM worked perfectly. It took a lot of force to remove that lower / frame and that lower / frame was really really tight to that Receiver. The main culprit causing the issue for the Bolt / Actuator not going all the way back was a bent Breech Oiler. The whole site of it is bent really far back. I guess when they put it back together it was the technicians last one for the day so they decided to rush it so the tech can punch out for the day. The pictures tell the tale. Thank you everyone for the wonderful advise, but it is advised to not remove the pivot plate at all costs. Thank you!!

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by mbc230

[mgvince]

My matching Savage Model 1928 is a very tight fit. It has to have a real hard wack to get the frame started to remove it.

[mbc230]

My matching Savage Model 1928 is a very tight fit. It has to have a real hard wack to get the frame started to remove it.

 

This was just a tight fit, but holy cow it took some really hard wacks with my Rubber Mallet. My colt is like butter and this Westie with a Savage Lower / Frame is really really tight. I am thinking of using a Colt Lower on it as I have a couple of them. Thank you for the insite.

[inertord]

The felt oiler in your photos the worst reproduction ever made. A new old stock USGI replacement is readily available at a fair price: https://www.gunbroker.com/item/933994647

[mbc230]

The felt oiler in your photos the worst reproduction ever made. A new old stock USGI replacement is readily available at a fair price: https://www.gunbroker.com/item/933994647

 

Thank you, but I already have it covered.

[Ryo]

I bought a oiler for my westie but felt it was having some struggles with it in. So I took it out. Been meaning to try it again now I fixed my other issue.. But your issues are again making me second guess that idea.

[Mike Hammer]

The felt oiler is unnecessary. If you have the internals lubricated when you put it back together that is adequate to run your gun And should not need to be reapplied until you clean the gun the next time that you shoot it.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Mike Hammer

[Countryboy77]

 

The felt oiler is unnecessary. If you have the internals lubricated when you put it back together that is adequate to run your gun And should not need to be reapplied until you clean the gun the next time that you shoot it.

I was told this is not true. That these hardened spring steel clips help spread the load of the bolt hitting the buffer ratger than tge rear of the receiver taking all tge force.Even PK i believe has made inserts where tge felt oiler goes to take the pressure off the receiver which is needed especially with the Hurley. Theres guys that say the Blishvlock dont do anything and you dont need it to operate but it definately does somthing too even though it will operate without it it does help some.Correct me if Im wrong.