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Band Around Foregrip Assembly


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I was alerted by a post that the band around the foregrip is not universal. I am putting together display pieces and I am wondering when the band is appropriate. I checked the Unofficial Tommy Gun Page and the parts lists for the 1928 and M1A1 at Numrich. Neither site shows that in their parts list for the Thompson. Since I have some I thought I'd put them on the appropriate pieces.  This is a picture of a piece I am working on.

 

firstbuildglamorshotredcircle.thumb.jpg.e709230ba81c11026fb85894605aeebb.jpg

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I think the rule of thumb would be to use on M1/M1A1 but not M2928A1. The later grip mount can bend away from the barrel from the stress/force of the sling pulling on the swivel which is attached to the forend which is attached to the grip mount. But now that I think about it in all my travels I do not recall seeing a Thompson with the band.

Bob

 

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It occasionally shows up in original wartime ETO M1A1 photos. Agree, it was developed to reinforce the stamped and riveted grip mount.  

 

 

43M1A1.jpg

Edited by TSMGguy
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I previously owned a WWII vet bringback 1928A1 with the reinforcing band. Someone had made a replacement grip mount to get the gun back into action, but it was not as strong as an original mount, so they added the reinforcing band. You could tell from the foregrip that the band had been in place for a long time. 
 

I suspect this was an exceptional situation, as it is the only example I have seen on a 1928. 

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As I read in one of hte books in my collection, the modified solid milled fore grip support on the M1, was changed to a 3-piece riveted design on the M1A1, which was a failure because the rearmost riveted part required a hole in the body of the grip mount near the front end of the receiver where the grip mount needed its maximum strength.

A downward pull on the sling can bend the grip mount downward, away from the barrel. To solve this problem, a strap was fitted clamping the barrel and front end of the forearm together. War time manufacturing sometimes creates an interesting dilemma. The design changes on the M1A1 Grip Mount, in an effort to reduce costs, created a requirement for a separate part to be manufactured to correct an issue that did not previously exist. This is a classic case of a cents saving modification, costing dollars to fix. 

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8 hours ago, reconbob said:

I think the rule of thumb would be to use on M1/M1A1 but not M2928A1. The later grip mount can bend away from the barrel from the stress/force of the sling pulling on the swivel which is attached to the forend which is attached to the grip mount. But now that I think about it in all my travels I do not recall seeing a Thompson with the band.

Bob

 

I was hoping it meant the piece was at Pearl harbor.

 

It sounds like it may be more common on riveted foregrip mounts.

 

Might have come out of  RTK kit.

 

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Something that is rarely mentioned about the use of the fore grip band is that it marred the fore grip and the barrel over time.  
 

There were quite a few M1/M1A1 guns provided to Law Enforcement through a government “base closure” program in the 1960s.  Many of those guns were equipped with barrel bands and exhibited very noticeable cosmetic damage to barrels and grips.  I would not put one a transferable gun for that reason.  

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My M1A1 has one on it because I put it on.   I found a USGI NOS one on ebay and stuck it on.   

Why?   Well, my M1A1 is an excellent gun, but it's a typical parkerized RIA franken-rebuild and there is little originality left to ruin.

I like to shoot it, and I don't want the mount to break.    And the barrel band greatly reduces the load on the riveted mount.

Also, the barrel band is a genuine WWII USGI item.  It's not like putting a red dot sight on the gun.

From an engineering standpoint, the original Thompson was incredibly over-engineered.

Having a cantilever fore stock mount that contacted the barrel on just one cooling fin was completely unnecessary and performed no useful function.

Sure, it improved cooling and improved the harmonic vibration of the barrel, but those things are not needed in a pistol-caliber subgun.  

Once they replaced the milled mount with riveted, the barrel band became a necessity for any hard use, IMHO.

From a structural engineering standpoint, the addition of the barrel band changes the riveted mount from a "cantilever" to a "propped cantilever."   

MATHMATICALLY, FOR A UNIFORM LOADING ON THE GRIP, THE BARREL BAND REDUCES THE BENDING FORCE IN THE MOUNT BY 75%.  BIG BIG BIG IMPROVEMENT.   

 

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On 10/29/2022 at 10:18 AM, reconbob said:

I think the rule of thumb would be to use on M1/M1A1 but not M2928A1. The later grip mount can bend away from the barrel from the stress/force of the sling pulling on the swivel which is attached to the forend which is attached to the grip mount. But now that I think about it in all my travels I do not recall seeing a Thompson with the band.

Bob

 

I guess it's irony that the bands are in the parts inventory you need to clear out. The coloring on mine looks quite used. I'm thinking about using mineral spirits on the dirty stocks and seeing if I can leave the piece in unrefurbished condition.  There is a mark on the foregrip I think indicating it had been attached for a long time.

The band is also motivating me to document all the parts that come in so I can work backwards when I find something odd.

Originally I was just going to document any matching serial numbers and keep NOS parts separate from used ones.

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While in Bosnia in 98-99, I have personally observed and handled hundreds US Govt Aid supplied M1A1 Thompson with the reinforcing bands, with the riveted forearm grip mount.   I have seen one US Army European theater WW2 war time photo of ammo dump guard with 1928A1 with the reinforcing band on the grip, if I can find it , I'll post it.  I guess some dog faces wanted to make sure...

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12 hours ago, thirtyround said:

While in Bosnia in 98-99, I have personally observed and handled hundreds US Govt Aid supplied M1A1 Thompson with the reinforcing bands, with the riveted forearm grip mount.   I have seen one US Army European theater WW2 war time photo of ammo dump guard with 1928A1 with the reinforcing band on the grip, if I can find it , I'll post it.  I guess some dog faces wanted to make sure...

Well, it's heavy enough to be a bludgeon, can't have the fore end bending.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 10/29/2022 at 4:12 PM, Steelflood said:

I was hoping it meant the piece was at Pearl harbor.

 

It sounds like it may be more common on riveted foregrip mounts.

 

Might have come out of  RTK kit.

 

The source I found claimed it was introduced in 1943

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On 10/29/2022 at 7:43 AM, TSMG28 said:

I previously owned a WWII vet bringback 1928A1 with the reinforcing band. Someone had made a replacement grip mount to get the gun back into action, but it was not as strong as an original mount, so they added the reinforcing band. You could tell from the foregrip that the band had been in place for a long time. 
 

I suspect this was an exceptional situation, as it is the only example I have seen on a 1928. 

The source I added said it's a 1943 part

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On 10/29/2022 at 7:18 AM, reconbob said:

I think the rule of thumb would be to use on M1/M1A1 but not M2928A1. The later grip mount can bend away from the barrel from the stress/force of the sling pulling on the swivel which is attached to the forend which is attached to the grip mount. But now that I think about it in all my travels I do not recall seeing a Thompson with the band.

Bob

 

2102789808_forearmbandnewhppscan366(1).thumb.jpg.ea8604293bd61df146a8ac15ce9da34d.jpg

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On 10/28/2022 at 7:57 PM, Steelflood said:

I was alerted by a post that the band around the foregrip is not universal. I am putting together display pieces and I am wondering when the band is appropriate. I checked the Unofficial Tommy Gun Page and the parts lists for the 1928 and M1A1 at Numrich. Neither site shows that in their parts list for the Thompson. Since I have some I thought I'd put them on the appropriate pieces.  This is a picture of a piece I am working on.

 

firstbuildglamorshotredcircle.thumb.jpg.e709230ba81c11026fb85894605aeebb.jpg


Do you own this book?  If not it should be your next purchase.

https://chipotlepublishing.com/product/american-thunder-military-thompson-submachine-guns-3rd-edition/

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9 hours ago, RoscoeTurner said:

I have American Thunder 3

I pulled the images from Doug Richardson's website and this was one of them, I thought I'd share it as it gave a specific answer to the question I asked. ie 1943 is when the bands went on. I've read some of American Thunder but I don't remember data on the bands. And ha ha, if that image is in the book, boy I didn't remember it. I'm in Iowa and the book is at home on Florida so I couldn't open it up before replying.  I don't feel like having American Thunder means I'm done picking up more good books. 

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Haven't we beaten this one to death?

If your TSMG, whether it's a '28, an M1 or an M1A1, has a riveted grip mount it needs the band; if it has a forged one it does not.  Apparently some Ordnance shops put bands on everything so there is no hard and fast rule for what model have them as opposed to what models actually need them

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  • dalbert changed the title to Band Around Foregrip Assembly

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