History of my personal Thompson 1928A1 - serial number lookup

[Louke]

Hi guys! 

 

I recently bought my first Original thompson - 1928A1 - in a very good state. I was wondering if some of you could help to try to retrace to when & where the weapon was used & issued. Most importantly, what year it was made?

Is there a possibility to trace it back to, if it was used in ww2, to which unit, country etc?

I have the Thompson bible from Gracie L Hill but do not seemd to find anything on the serial number (might of looked over it aswell since I got frustrated haha! ) 

This is the serial number : A060432  

Have a great weekend everyone 

Thanks in advance!

 

Regards

Edited December 3, 2022 by Louke
forgot to add

[Mk VII]

Almost certainly not. Such unit property lists are not preserved permanently, unless by chance. 

 

[TD.]

Louke,

Welcome to the Thompson forum. It appears to me that you have a Thompson submachine gun that was manufactured by the Auto-Ordnance Bridgeport factory in late 1941 or early 1942. Production records by serial number are not available. I am guessing you are not in the USA and this Thompson is deactivated. Please correct me if I am wrong. If in the USA, I have some good suggestions on finding out the past history. 

I can tell you the frame on your Thompson is from the Savage Arms factory. My guess is the frame on your Thompson has been renumbered to match the receiver serial number. The current authority on the World War II Thompson guns is by Frank Iannamico - American Thunder III. You will find a lot of information on your Auto-Ordnance Bridgeport Thompson in this publication. 

It appears you have a very nice example of a World War II Thompson submachine gun. Thank you for sharing pictures. 

[Louke]

Dear TD,

thanks for informative answer; highly appreciated! 
 

I am based In Belgium but the weapon is not deactivated, it is still fully functional - full and semi. I am a licensed collectionner (ww1&ww2) thus I am allowed to have these items. luckily it is not deactivated and we can keep these 100% original without having it messed with! 
 

I am very interested in knowing more about this piece, even if Info etc is US based.

 

thanks in advance! 
 

have a great day 

 

regards

[Bridgeport28A1]

Information you seek with the exception of where serial numbers went is in the book American Thunder III by Frank Iannamico that TD. recommended. There is also an American Thunder I and American Thunder II book by Frank Iannamico.

Shipping records if they ever were located would be a holy grail to find for a lot of military Thompson owners. 

Congratulation on your AOC Bridgeport!

 

 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Bridgeport28A1
Exception of shipping records

[TD.]

Louke,

Congratulations on having an operational Thompson submachine gun in Belgium. There is little chance of finding any information on your specific Thompson gun by serial number in the USA. Frank's book by far will have the most information and allow you to really understand the making of your Thompson during World War II. For example, you will understand the ordnance wheel and WB markings on the left side receiver.  You will also understand why I know the frame is from Savage Arms. 

Please post a picture of the serial number area on the frame. 

Frank's American Thunder III is hardcover, $40, and available on Amazon.com. I believe there is a "Look Inside" feature on Amazon. I expect it to go out of print soon. I also write books on the Thompson submachine gun (search under the name "Tom Davis, Jr." on Amazon), but I always recommend Frank's book for those with World War II Thompson guns. 

Do you ever see any Colt manufactured Thompson guns in Belgium? 

 

[Bridgeport28A1]

Louke, I saw your Thompson serial number and thought that is close to a AOC trigger frame I own. I checked my AOC trigger frame and it is serial number 60234. The last three numbers are in reverse order from your AOC receiver. There is a chance the original AOC trigger frame 60432 matching your receiver may be sitting in somebody spare parts or assembled on a receiver here in the USA. My AOC trigger frame came from late Don Bell dba Omega Weapons Systems.

 

 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Bridgeport28A1
added photos

[TSMGguy]

Narrowing the production date down a little, Waldemar Broberg (WB stamp) was inspector for the US Army's Springfield Ordnance District from 1 July 1941 until 30 June 1942. With the five-digit serial number, we can say pretty definitively that this M1928A1 was made in 1941, probably in August or September.

Right, no production lists by serial number exist today. 

Edited December 4, 2022 by TSMGguy

[Louke]

11 hours ago, TSMGguy said:

Narrowing the production date down a little, Waldemar Broberg (WB stamp) was inspector for the US Army's Springfield Ordnance District from 1 July 1941 until 30 June 1942. With the five-digit serial number, we can say pretty definitively that this M1928A1 was made in 1941, probably in August or September.

Right, no production lists by serial number exist today. 

The 5 digit serial number was something specific related to WB I presume? 

 

Thanks for the info! Much appreciated

[Louke]

14 hours ago, Bridgeport28A1 said:

Louke, I saw your Thompson serial number and thought that is close to a AOC trigger frame I own. I checked my AOC trigger frame and it is serial number 60234. The last three numbers are in reverse order from your AOC receiver. There is a chance the original AOC trigger frame 60432 matching your receiver may be sitting in somebody spare parts or assembled on a receiver here in the USA. My AOC trigger frame came from late Don Bell dba Omega Weapons Systems.

 

 

Awesome to see we only missed 200 units between ours! Understood, will need to look into that aswell! 

 

Thanks for the info

[Louke]

15 hours ago, TD. said:

Louke,

Congratulations on having an operational Thompson submachine gun in Belgium. There is little chance of finding any information on your specific Thompson gun by serial number in the USA. Frank's book by far will have the most information and allow you to really understand the making of your Thompson during World War II. For example, you will understand the ordnance wheel and WB markings on the left side receiver.  You will also understand why I know the frame is from Savage Arms. 

Please post a picture of the serial number area on the frame. 

Frank's American Thunder III is hardcover, $40, and available on Amazon.com. I believe there is a "Look Inside" feature on Amazon. I expect it to go out of print soon. I also write books on the Thompson submachine gun (search under the name "Tom Davis, Jr." on Amazon), but I always recommend Frank's book for those with World War II Thompson guns. 

Do you ever see any Colt manufactured Thompson guns in Belgium? 

 

TD, 

 

Thanks, I am a happy man! Understood, will order Frank's book and look into yours aswell definitely! 

 

Will send the necessary pictures! 

Colt thompson - No, almost zero to none - Looked into that in the past but these are very rare in Belgium as far as I know! 

For interest - what would your price be in the US for the identical model I own? Price here was 2500 €, interesting to know what prices are overseas! 

Thanks in advance TD. 

 

 

 

[TSMGguy]

3 hours ago, Louke said:

The 5 digit serial number was something specific related to WB I presume? 

 

 

He just happened to be the ordnance inspector at the beginning of Bridgeport M1928A1 production. This happened later than most people realize, in 1941, rather than the 1930s. Production apparently only extended into 1942, when the M1928A1 was replaced with the M1 TSMG. So, less than two years. My own Bridgeport Savage M1928A1 serial number 332xxx has an RLB inspector's mark, dating it to 1 July 1942 or later.   

Your gun would have originally had knurled paddle-type pivot and safety levers.

Nice piece! 

[john]

I own AO51983 and that also has a mismatched grip frame.....I think AO59xxx?

Mine has knurled levers and actuator.

Am jealous though as mine has been through a bad refinish. I recently had it  cleaned up but still not original finish  as yours is.

Great shooter, though!

 

Congrats on yours and welcome to the forums!

 

John

Edited December 4, 2022 by john
Sp

[TD.]

Louke,

I would guess that live Colt Thompsons outside the USA are indeed difficult to find. I do know a small number of deactivated Colt's do surface from time to time on the collector market. Those are usually very expensive compared to the World War II Thompson deacs. 

I would guess your Auto-Ordnance Bridgeport (AOB) Thompson would sell at $25,000 plus in the USA. The mis-matched frame does impact value. If mine in the USA, I would probably start out at 29K and listen to offers. I would also try to purchase forum member Bridgeport28A1's very closely numbered frame before listing it for sale. I too purchased a complete frame from Don Bell at Omega before his untimely death. My frame, like Bridgeport28A1's above, is in excellent condition. Serial number: A.O. 35097. I also have a very large cut center receiver piece that I display at Thompson Assocation events to show enthusiasts what the original dulite finish on an AOB Thompson is supposed to look like. So many WWII Thompson guns in the USA have been refinished. An original finish AOB or Savage is sometimes hard to find. The serial number on my receiver piece is: No. A.O. 66286. 

TSMGguy,

I don't study military WWII Thompson guns but I do collect information on some, especially the early ones. I don't believe knurled fire control levers (safety and rocker pivot) are normally found on even the earliest AOB Thompsons. AOB relied heavily on subcontractors for parts when production began in August 1941 and never made the rocker pivot as far as I can tell. AOC is listed as a manufacturer of the Safety lever but I am not sure I have ever seen an AOC marked Safety. Savage Arms is the manufacturer I see most associated with the knurled fire control levers. I would like to see what you are basing that statement on. I have seen a knurled rocker pivot on an original AOB gun (see page 40 in, A Thompson Compendium) but it definitely is not the norm and I don't believe required. 

All good stuff!!! 

[Louke]

1 hour ago, TD. said:

Louke,

I would guess that live Colt Thompsons outside the USA are indeed difficult to find. I do know a small number of deactivated Colt's do surface from time to time on the collector market. Those are usually very expensive compared to the World War II Thompson deacs. 

I would guess your Auto-Ordnance Bridgeport (AOB) Thompson would sell at $25,000 plus in the USA. The mis-matched frame does impact value. If mine in the USA, I would probably start out at 29K and listen to offers. I would also try to purchase forum member Bridgeport28A1's very closely numbered frame before listing it for sale. I too purchased a complete frame from Don Bell at Omega before his untimely death. My frame, like Bridgeport28A1's above, is in excellent condition. Serial number: A.O. 35097. I also have a very large cut center receiver piece that I display at Thompson Assocation events to show enthusiasts what the original dulite finish on an AOB Thompson is supposed to look like. So many WWII Thompson guns in the USA have been refinished. An original finish AOB or Savage is sometimes hard to find. The serial number on my receiver piece is: No. A.O. 66286. 

TSMGguy,

I don't study military WWII Thompson guns but I do collect information on some, especially the early ones. I don't believe knurled fire control levers (safety and rocker pivot) are normally found on even the earliest AOB Thompsons. AOB relied heavily on subcontractors for parts when production began in August 1941 and never made the rocker pivot as farT as I can tell. AOC is listed as a manufacturer of the Safety lever but I am not sure I have ever seen an AOC marked Safety. Savage Arms is the manufacturer I see most associated with the knurled fire control levers. I would like to see what you are basing that statement on. I have seen a knurled rocker pivot on an original AOB gun (see page 40 in, A Thompson Compendium) but it definitely is not the norm and I don't believe required. 

All good stuff!!! 

TD, 

I aswell see them resurface on various collector sites etc from time to time & a lot of deactived ones obviously. 

I still need to look at my trigger frame, I have no clue if this will have the same Serial number or not. Will keep you posted. What gives it away by seeing the pictures that this might not be the case? 

Those thompson association events sound awesome, I should make the trip one day to visit those.. 

Crazy to hear that they go for that much stateside, seems they are much lower in Europe, Belgium in Specific. Friend of mine bought an all original M1A1, full functional, for 2000 euro aswell. How can that be such a price difference. I presume because a lot of these items stayed behind in EU after the war? 

 

TSMG, 

Understood, thanks for the info, appreciated!

 

John,

Thanks for sharing! Sad to hear that it had a bad refinish but it still is a hell of a unique piece to have! 

 

 

 

 

[inertord]

The $25,000+ US Price is for an example that was in the United States prior to 1969 and was Registered in The National Firearms Act. A TSMG currently outside the US can not be currently imported for ownership by an individual. 

[Louke]

48 minutes ago, inertord said:

The $25,000+ US Price is for an example that was in the United States prior to 1969 and was Registered in The National Firearms Act. A TSMG currently outside the US can not be currently imported for ownership by an individual. 

Why is that? Why in specific TSMG since a lot of other weapons systems & parts are imported on a daily basis. Curious to see what stops them (gunsmiths, dealers etc) from importing them to US. 

Will never let mine go that's for sure but it is an interesting topic.

Thanks in advance

[Varminter]

All full autos in the US are registered, i.e. the manufacturer and serial number.  The registry is closed - meaning that you cannot make or import any.  If you find an old unregistered Thompson in GrandPa's attic, it's not legal to own.  So there's a distortion in the market, collectors drive the price up on an absolutely limited # of guns.

 

 

 

[Autorotate]

Good Afternoon Louke,

Nice looking ‘28 Thompson and thanks for posting. Lots of very knowledgeable people here who are happy to share their knowledge base.

Would it be  possible to get a more detailed picture or the left side of the receiver? There appears to be identical stamps on the upper and lower just above the word “Full Auto” and was curious as to what they are…overseas rebuild stamps? Foreign government surplus property marks?

I have attempted to post a picture of the area in question.

Regards,

John

Edited January 3, 2023 by Autorotate
Wrong word

[Mk VII]

Appears to be Birmingham commercial proof mark. 

[gijive]

55 minutes ago, Autorotate said:

Good Afternoon Louke,

Nice looking ‘28 Thompson and thanks for posting. Lots of very knowledgeable people here who are happy to share their knowledge base.

Would it be  possible to get a more detailed picture or the left side of the receiver? There appears to be identical stamps on the upper and lower just above the word “Full Auto” and was curious as to what they are…overseas rebuild stamps? Foreign government surplus property marks?

I have attempted to post a picture of the area in question.

Regards,

John

Autorotate,

I guess that the marks you refer to are some sort of foreign markings indicating that the gun was inspected/proofed?  The owner lives in Europe and doesn't understand that the gun couldn't be imported into the US.  I'm not sure of you saw that in the previous posts, or if you did,  were you just wondering what the marks meant?

[Rekraps]

On 12/3/2022 at 12:23 PM, TD. said:

Louke,

Welcome to the Thompson forum. It appears to me that you have a Thompson submachine gun that was manufactured by the Auto-Ordnance Bridgeport factory in late 1941 or early 1942. Production records by serial number are not available. I am guessing you are not in the USA and this Thompson is deactivated. Please correct me if I am wrong. If in the USA, I have some good suggestions on finding out the past history. 

I can tell you the frame on your Thompson is from the Savage Arms factory. My guess is the frame on your Thompson has been renumbered to match the receiver serial number. The current authority on the World War II Thompson guns is by Frank Iannamico - American Thunder III. You will find a lot of information on your Auto-Ordnance Bridgeport Thompson in this publication. 

It appears you have a very nice example of a World War II Thompson submachine gun. Thank you for sharing pictures. 

I love your post. Help me understand HOW you know the lower is a Savage? 
 

Thanks for the post!

[Autorotate]

That’s exactly correct GI Jive…

At first glance they looked like Waffenamt but that doesn’t make sense so I assumed they were some other foreign government proof for the release of surplus property. Was just curious as had not seen stamps in that location before.

Its interesting to learn how other nations allow their citizens to collect military firearms (special license, storage, etc). Louke indicated it was not a DEWAT but it took along time to receive the Thompson.

[gijive]

5 minutes ago, Rekraps said:

I love your post. Help me understand HOW you know the lower is a Savage? 
 

Thanks for the post!

The Full Auto on the grip frame is engraved on two lines.  Only Savage did that.  Auto-Ordnance engraved Full Auto on one line.

[Rekraps]

Thank you!