WW2 era Auto-Ord 1928 for sale

[SP Sarge]

(Posted with dalberts permission)

I recently flew from Pennsylvania to Arizona to meet a retiree and his wife who have a WW2 era 1928 Thompson they are parting with. The photos I had seen prior were only enough to tell it was a 1928 Thompson, but without much further detail. They were not really tech savvy with taking photos and transferring them to email so I decided to go see it in person.

 

I wound up not purchasing the weapon because it is a re-weld (to use the common term for a receiver that was de-commissioned by cutting and then welded back together for the amnesty registration). They we’re not aware it had been welded, and I couldn’t tell from photos until I saw it in person. Sad to say for both parties, a re-weld was just not what I was looking for.

 

However, the sellers are really nice people and I told them I’d try to at least get the word out for them that the gun is on the market. The seller was originally asking $25,000.00 for the weapon, and extra for the accessories, but I’m sure he would be open to other reasonable offers. It’s been on a Form 4 with the current owner since 2003, and the form 4 lists the manufacturer as Auto Ordnance Bridgeport, Conn.

 

For accessories there are about 26 twenty round WW2 era mags of assorted manufacture, around 15 thirty round WW2 era mags of assorted manufacturer, some GI canvass pouches and web belt, and a “U” stamped WW2 era 50 round drum.

 

It is in the early serial number range for Bridgeports’ (26237) and does have a finned barrel and flip up Lyman rear sight being correct for that period. The rifling of the barrel appeared good. The weapon does not have its original finish, and instead has been polished and blued. I’d say most of the usual proof marks you look for on a WW2 era Thompson have been buffed out when it was polished or fell victim to the welds. I was able to see a faint “WB” proof mark on the left side of the receiver. The lower receiver has some pitting that was cleaned and blued over. The cutts compensator appears to have been braised on rather than pinned.

 

In the below attached photos the weld areas are depicted, which are the nose piece and the area just behind the magazine well.

 

Again, they are really nice folks, so I’d like to help them find a buyer. If you would be interested in making an offer, please PM me and I will put you in contact with the seller.

 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2022 by SP Sarge

[brveagle]

I've not been in the game long enough to know how much a reweld drops in value but i imagine it'd be a large distractor for a lot of people. 

Edited December 8, 2022 by brveagle

[colt21a]

I pray for them much luck. A boat anchor in my book.and a salute to you for trying to help them out. a saw a number of not pretty at SAR show. a quick look and keep walking.Let somebody else enjoy the projects and work...RON K.

[Varminter]

Having looked at Sturm almost daily for the past two years, I would guess the gun is probably in the 15k range.  It has value as a shooter.  You can come across an M1 for low 20's that's not a reweld. The form 4 means another delay for anybody not in PA.  It's nice that it comes with 40 sticks and a drum, a bonus for whomever buys it.

 

 

[StrangeRanger]

Maybe the worst re-weld in history

It's worth its value in parts which assuming that it's complete is substantial but nowhere near what they aspire to

[SP Sarge]

2 hours ago, colt21a said:

I pray for them much luck. A boat anchor in my book.and a salute to you for trying to help them out. a saw a number of not pretty at SAR show. a quick look and keep walking.Let somebody else enjoy the projects and work...RON K.

Thanks Colt21. I felt bad for he and his wife, as in this day and age if you're not good with the internet (and know things like gunbroker, etc) it's hard to sell something like that. So, I figured at least I could put the word out and maybe someone looking for a "knock around" tommy might make them an offer.

Varminter, I may have to look at Strum too. I'm still in the market for one myself in the 25 to 30k range. 

Edited December 7, 2022 by SP Sarge

[colt21a]

Whatever he paid for it around 2003 he should put a few grand on that and hope. Doing it for 50 years i know what i see and what i am talking about. a guy at SAR had a fairly decent one he sold for $22g at the show. most wanted $25 to $35 g. for run of the mill cond.Sadly that is what's out there today in market.RON K.

[Merry Ploughboy]

7 minutes ago, colt21a said:

Whatever he paid for it around 2003 he should put a few grand on that and hope. Doing it for 50 years i know what i see and what i am talking about. a guy at SAR had a fairly decent one he sold for $22g at the show. most wanted $25 to $35 g. for run of the mill cond.Sadly that is what's out there today in market.RON K.

Yeah, a lot of current would be sellers are in denial, but so-called "Brandonomics" has seriously depressed machine gun pricing as well as housing pricing; and I'd guess a lot of discretionary luxury goods such as vintage muscle cars, sail boats, and expensive watches.

MHO, YMMV, etc.

[StrangeRanger]

5 minutes ago, Merry Ploughboy said:

...but so-called "Brandonomics" has seriously depressed machine gun pricing...

Seriously??  SMG prices are up, way, way up in the last year.  Asking prices for Group Uzis are now $20-22K.  2 years ago they were$12-15K.  Stens have gone from $6K to $8-9K.  Ammo prices have caused belt-feds to not take off quite as rapidly but they are up as well

[Mike Hammer]

I don’t know if you could call that poor gun even a shooter. It doesn’t even look like a square reweld, look at the angle of the upper with the magazine installed,it doesn’t look like a 45 degrees angle. I wouldn’t touch this one with the proverbial 10 footer.

[Merry Ploughboy]

3 hours ago, StrangeRanger said:

Seriously??  SMG prices are up, way, way up in the last year.  Asking prices for Group Uzis are now $20-22K.  2 years ago they were$12-15K.  Stens have gone from $6K to $8-9K.  Ammo prices have caused belt-feds to not take off quite as rapidly but they are up as well

While asking prices (from what I called would be sellers) still may be up, for the last several months on the Strum board I see gun after gun with "Price Lowered" headings before they sell. And on Gunbroker machine guns listed at prices from six months ago but not sold at all.  The prices haven't plummeted overnight, they're sliding down, just like housing prices.

MHO, YMMV, etc.

[mgvince]

The only thing you could say good about that gun, is that it's on the registry.  

I wonder how it functions. That receiver is definitely out of square.  Looks like it has a twist also.  Would need some serious work to get it right.  

Everything about it is bad.  The buffing, pitting, comp.  Wow.  The list just goes on.  Thats quite the interesting safety lever.  Amazing what you can do with a file.

Look at the hole in the right side of the frame for the mag catch.

I think $15k would be Too much.  But someone uninformed will buy it.   

 

[colt21a]

Donate to n.r.a. museum take tax write-off. {With a note what not to do to a military Thompson}

or mark up a few g and what he paid for it  in 2003, maybe $3,000.00  and throw in all the extra's. Donation maybe the answer. since shipping it to new owner that gun will come back quick.you have a wood set and a barrel and site. and maybe a bolt.and spring.

Another prayer tonight for the retired couple.

 

[Motorcar]

Sad, I wondered also if it even fires correctly.

[Varminter]

The upper looks too long, jacking the upper part of the magazine forward.  Is one allowed to cut the rearward (NFA keeper portion) off and do a reweld with a straight front portion?  Or does demilling require the upper to be cut into three pieces, putting you back somewhat at square one?

 

SP Sarge should be able to find an M1 or M1A1 for low 20's.  Mine was 20K and shoots well.  I built a home range just to shoot it often.  I have no idea how public, private , and indoor ranges treat such firearms.  Wish the sellers luck.

 

 

 

 

[mnshooter]

Actually looked at a 28 I'd call even worse that that, a few years back.

Wish I'd taken some photos. Didn't buy it, even at the under 10K price.

A serial number, with some metal wrapped around it.

[inertord]

Do the sellers have 1968 NFA Amnesty Registration Documentation, or is that just speculation? 

If it was actually amnesty registered, at least it is C&R Eligible. 

[SP Sarge]

inertord, I really don't know about any other paperwork, I'd be just guessing. Aside from seeing the Form 4 it's currently on, I didn't get into any other paperwork discussion with them as I had already made up my mind it wasn't my cup of tea. Any statement regarding amnesty registration is assumption on my part.

I probably should have broken it down and photographed the internals too. But I think in this case the book can probably be judged by the cover. Posting it here for them was an afterthought of doing them a kindness once I had arrived back home. Never know if someone is looking for a project or a beater gun. They were a really nice retired couple, and I felt it was the least I could do. Even though I didn't buy the gun, we had a great dinner, drinks, did some liquor store shopping for high end tequila, and I got to see Arizona for my first time. 

Myself, I'm still looking for something in the 25k to 30k range in the WW2 era, preferably with no welds, and no pits ?. I took a loan before the Arizona trip so I'm at the crossroads of do I sent the money back to the credit union and pay off the loan,.... or continue to look while I have the cash in the bank. I'm partial to 28's but I'd consider an M1. Currently I have a 28 Westie (which I am not selling) that looks and runs great. 

 

 

[inertord]

Copy thanks.

 

[Doug Quaid]

On 12/8/2022 at 1:32 PM, SP Sarge said:

inertord, I really don't know about any other paperwork, I'd be just guessing. Aside from seeing the Form 4 it's currently on, I didn't get into any other paperwork discussion with them as I had already made up my mind it wasn't my cup of tea. Any statement regarding amnesty registration is assumption on my part.

I probably should have broken it down and photographed the internals too. But I think in this case the book can probably be judged by the cover. Posting it here for them was an afterthought of doing them a kindness once I had arrived back home. Never know if someone is looking for a project or a beater gun. They were a really nice retired couple, and I felt it was the least I could do. Even though I didn't buy the gun, we had a great dinner, drinks, did some liquor store shopping for high end tequila, and I got to see Arizona for my first time. 

Myself, I'm still looking for something in the 25k to 30k range in the WW2 era, preferably with no welds, and no pits ?. I took a loan before the Arizona trip so I'm at the crossroads of do I sent the money back to the credit union and pay off the loan,.... or continue to look while I have the cash in the bank. I'm partial to 28's but I'd consider an M1. Currently I have a 28 Westie (which I am not selling) that looks and runs great. 

 

 

I bought a Savage M1A1 just for the heck of it, a real minty arsenal (RIA) rebuild.  

Over time, it has become my all-time favorite gun.   M1s are a FANTASTIC gun, both as shooters and as historic artifacts.

[Doug Quaid]

The problem with this gun isn't that it's a reweld, the problem is that it's AWFUL.   

This gun represents the very bottom of the Thompson collecting totem pole.   The only way to go lower is to find an even more pitted and out-of-spec reweld.

Even the front sight was peened out of shape by the meathead who built it. 

$25,000 is possible only if they get lucky and come across a buyer who is completely clueless and has no idea at all how to price a Thompson.

Which describes the current owners.   They bought the thing, even though it's horrendous, and they think that $25k is a good price for it.









 

Edited December 22, 2022 by Doug Quaid

[Doug Quaid]

On 12/7/2022 at 11:51 AM, brveagle said:

I've not been in the game long enough to know how much a reweld drops in value but i imagine it'd be a large distractor for a lot of people. 

Rewelds are priced as shooters, if they shoot good and the gunsmithing was done well.

The big problem with this gun is the pitting and the obvious dimensional problems.   The receiver is grossly out of spec.

If the NFA registry was still open to new guns, this reweld would be stripped of good parts and then on to a landfill somewhere.  

As it is, the registration of it makes it worth maybe $10 or $12k.   A $50 gun with a $10,000 piece of paper.

 

[Rekraps]

On 12/7/2022 at 5:39 PM, StrangeRanger said:

Seriously??  SMG prices are up, way, way up in the last year.  Asking prices for Group Uzis are now $20-22K.  2 years ago they were$12-15K.  Stens have gone from $6K to $8-9K.  Ammo prices have caused belt-feds to not take off quite as rapidly but they are up as well

You are correct. Prices are not down. If you want to sell to a dealer, then perhaps so, or there are the occasional "deals" that pop up, but overall the prices are strongly resilient, and trending upward. MG's are a great alternate investment, a super cool hobby and a way to diversify your assets. 

All this being said, buy quality, the best you can afford. Guns like the one discussed here today are "okay" items, but as most people have noted, they are just shooters and hold value simply as a MG, not for any collectible reason. Nice guns can be shot also! I do it all the time. 

[Rimcrew]

They even ruined the knurling on the actuator knob.  How the heck do you do that?  That whole gun is a train-wreck.

[SP Sarge]

The weapon has been sold as a result of this forum thread as is no longer available.