Cutts Compensator types and values ???

[Lawman9328]

I'm a "newbie" TSMG owner (WH) and am seeking input from the masses.......

I read in a previous forum post from several years ago that there were basically 4 "types" of Cutts compensators for the TSMG. 

The four were:

Type I:    Compensator on the Colt Guns which was unmarked

Type II:   Slightly smaller in diameter than the Type I.  It had the Cutts logo in a diamond on the top front along with patent dates.

Third type ("Type III" ???):  Produced around 1940..... which had both a small bullet logo with word Thompson and the Cutts diamond logo on the top front. The Third Type was short lived as they rather quickly changed to....

Fourth type ("Type IV" ???"):   The common WWII era compensator that had the Cutts diamond logo on the top and the Thompson bullet logo on the left side.

I'm looking for a compensator for my West Hurley "shooter" TSMG and I MAY have come across one of the third type ("Type III").  That's based on a basic description I was given by the seller, who is not a "gun" person....I am awaiting photos to be sure.

If it turns out that I was given an accurate description and based on the previous post about them being "short-lived".......I'm wondering if a Type III would be more of a collector's piece and not something that should be on a "shooter".  What would a fair value on something like that be ?? (Not the Gunbroker price !)

Gene

 

[gijive]

Lawman9328,

You had everything pretty much correct, except the description of the Type II compensator.  The Type II is actually slightly larger than the the Type I and has different gas port slots along the top edge.  The same number just cut differently.  The different cut in the pattern followed on the Type III, and Type IV compensators.

If your friend does have a Type III, (many went overseas to Britain) it is probably the rarest Type of compensator.  I wouldn't call it scarce, but if you wanted to shoot it on your gun I would say go for it.  I would estimate it is worth about $150.00 - $200.00, depending on condition.

By the way the, he thread pitch on the Type I compensators is smaller than the rest of the compensators, so if you did actually find one you would have to have your barrel re-threaded.

[Lawman9328]

Gijive,

Thanks for the response.  With some key  components getting harder and harder to find I'm still trying to figure out what is "close hold" and what is shooter material.

My TSMG had its WH internals replaced with either Colt or very early Savage parts and I've had more than one person suggest those parts (knurled selector levers, milled ejector, etc) may be too valuable to have on a shooter !?

Oh well......it's all still a learning process for me.

Gene

[TD.]

Lawman9328,

Welcome to the Thompson community. While many of the West Hurley parts do need to be replaced with USGI parts, the WH compensator is a very serviceable part. Yes, some owners replace it because they want the markings of a GI compensator. That is a personal preference; not correcting a reliability issue. My biggest beef with the WH compensators is they were not pinned to the barrel. This is where I would spend money if I wanted a compensated Thompson. 

A good general all around very inexpensive Thompson book for the newbie is Frank Ianammico's, American Thunder III. It is a bargain at $39.99 retail, packed with a lot of valuable information and the authority on the World War II Thompson guns. You will learn a lot.

Post a picture of the left side frame on your West Hurley and we will be able to identify your fire control levers. Even if Colt levers, I doubt you would ever wear one out. 

[mnshooter]

On 12/21/2022 at 9:12 PM, TD. said:

Lawman9328,

Welcome to the Thompson community. While many of the West Hurley parts do need to be replaced with USGI parts, the WH compensator is a very serviceable part. Yes, some owners replace it because they want the markings of a GI compensator. That is a personal preference; not correcting a reliability issue. My biggest beef with the WH compensators is they were not pinned to the barrel. This is where I would spend money if I wanted a compensated Thompson. 

A good general all around very inexpensive Thompson book for the newbie is Frank Ianammico's, American Thunder III. It is a bargain at $39.99 retail, packed with a lot of valuable information and the authority on the World War II Thompson guns. You will learn a lot.

Post a picture of the left side frame on your West Hurley and we will be able to identify your fire control levers. Even if Colt levers, I doubt you would ever wear one out. 

A couple of other excellent books on these subjects, that seemed to have escaped this poster's attention:

A Thompson Compendium,   

(and)   

An Amateur's Guide for the Colt TSMG

You will be very pleased to own one or both of them.

 

[Lawman9328]

TD and mnshooter.......thanks for the replies.

TD,

One of the strange things about my WH is that the barrel was obviously changed.  It appears the barrel currently installed is NOT the one that was on it when it came from WH.  It is not threaded for a compensator, it only has a blade site up front.  In addition, the fins on the barrel appear to have more rounded edges and not the squared off milling.....but admittedly, I haven't seen enough of the different barrel types to be able to easily tell the differences.  I don't know yet whether the barrel is some new reproduction  of something from "back in the day". 

I do have the American Thunder book.  I'm slowly going though it trying to learn as much as I can.

I ended up buying 2 compensators recently.  One is the "common" version with the Cutts logo on the end and the Thompson logo on the side.  However, I also purchased one that has both the Cutts and Thompson logos on the end.  I've been told that this 2nd type is a little more uncommon since they weren't produced for that long.  I will call the condition of both "good or very good, but obviously used".......any recommendation on how (or if) they should be refurbished ?  I've also included a picture of the two of them.  The "common" one has some marks on either side where it looks like someone used pliers to remove it...they aren't really gouges or scratches....more like "discolorations" (see image).  The other one is actually in much better shape......just both logos are a faint and hard to see unless the light is just right.  Actually, this second one appears to have some of the original white coloring of the patent lettering

Also included is the best picture I have of the left side of my Tommy.....I'll get better ones the next time I go "visit" it while it's in "ATF Jail"

mnshooter, 

Thanks for the suggestion on additional reading material.  I'll look into both of those once I get Christmas paid off !!!

Again, thanks to the both of you.

Gene

Edited December 27, 2022 by Lawman9328

[TD.]

Lawman9328,

It appears to me that you have a very nice West Hurley Thompson. Based on on the pictures, it looks to have been re-blued. The fire control levers do appear to be knurled. That said, I am not sure if the levers are Colt's or USGI paddle levers that someone has checkered. Either way, they look nice. I also like the milled ejector. At first glance, I thought you may have a WH that PK may have remanufactured. Is the frame serial numbered to the receiver? That appears to be an original Lyman rear sight. A quick look at the Blish slots will tell the story (I understand it is currently in ATF jail). You may also contact Board member PK. with the serial number and see if he may have worked on this WH. Whatever the story, it appears to me a past owner spent some time and money upgrading this WH. The 21A barrel set-up can be original but based on the other upgrades, it was probably added by a past owner.  

The barrel fins on early WH barrels are very square and sharp to touch. Later WH barrels have nice smooth rounded fins. 

The two compensators appear to be the USGI Type 3 and Type 4 variations. Both will work if the barrel is threaded properly. Look inside the compensators at the compensator pins. If the pins appear to be threaded, then the compensators were removed from a Thompson barrel without removing the pin. I have heard that compensators removed this way may be difficult to tighten on a properly threaded barrel. There is probably a gunsmith correction for this but I would assume a new compensator pin will be needed - easily made by a gunsmith with the proper equipment. 

I personally like the 21A set-up. If me, I would not be in a hurry to change over to a compensator. 

[TSMGguy]

1 hour ago, TD. said:

 

I personally like the 21A set-up. If me, I would not be in a hurry to change over to a compensator. 

The compensator makes the gun more difficult to clean, and lead build up can be a problem. 

[Uncle Dudley]

redo

Edited December 28, 2022 by Uncle Dudley

[Uncle Dudley]

Lawman9328, you have a very nice West Hurley.  I sent my West Hurley to PK for some nice upgrades, including knurled paddle type (WWII) fire control levers, a new barrel with Colt style fins, radiused drum slots, a Lyman rear sight, pinned compensator, and a spectacular refinish.  Make yours the way you want it.  I'm very happy with mine.

[Merry Ploughboy]

I used to have a '28A1 and an M1A1.  I came to hate cleaning the compensator on the '28, and so I shot the M1A1 much more often.  I sold both of those and later, when I got the '21AC that I currently own, to ensure the integrity of the barrel for future owners, the first thing I did was have the compensated barrel swapped with an aftermarket A type barrel and ring sight.

Best of luck.  MHO, YMMV, etc.  Be well.