Ok. How did I do?

[Outsider]

Ok. So the numbers match on the receiver and the frame. Both receiver and frame have been parked, but I do not see any pitting that would make someone want to do that. I did get a British soldered mag with this gun that also had an Israeli stamp on it. All of the large parts all look to be Savage as well as the gun is a Savage and it has what looks to be the British conversion on the wood stock. Barrel is still a 28 rib in blue. There is a small stamp on the top of the receiver just behind the barrel and also on the top of the actuator that I don't know what it is. Top of the barrel also has a mark I cannot make out followed by .45.900 7tons.

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by Outsider

[Outsider]

Here are some more pics.

[Colt Chopper]

I think you did good, it looks nice, I really like it

[Motorcar]

That's neat, very cool stuff. British proofs, neat, neat, neat!

[Got Uzi]

That stamp is a crown mark from one of the British proof houses. The barrel, bolt, and receiver would be marked. What’s funny is they marked the actuator so they could see the mark through the slot. 

[Uncle Dudley]

TOMMY GUN on the reciever is nice, also.  Very cool gun with history.

 

U D

[Barry]

Outsider

Your gun has a very nice look about it

What are your thoughts about the finish of the receiver and lower vs the barrel

Barry

[Outsider]

51 minutes ago, Barry said:

Outsider

Your gun has a very nice look about it

What are your thoughts about the finish of the receiver and lower vs the barrel

Barry

I would love it if it was a uniform finish over the whole gun, but I got a deal on this gun and it seems to not be a mix master so I will gladly live with it.

[TD.]

A very nice Savage Thompson. Thank you for sharing.

I would really like to see some crisp in focus pictures of all the British markings except for the barrel markings. The barrel markings are not military but done at a civilian proof house prior to your Savage being exported to the USA. A Freedom of Information Act would tell when this Savage was first registered with the IRS on the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record. Of course, you know who you purchased it from and they know where they purchased it from. Now is a great time to be obtaining that information. 

Regarding uniform finish, that is a sure sign of a refinished Thompson. Savage Thompson receivers and frames were a dullish blue color via a dulite finish while the barrels are often a bright blue color; the compensators are usually a brighter blue. I can't tell by the pictures if the finish on your receiver and frame is the original finish but my first thoughts when reviewing the pictures were this may be an original finished Thompson. 

[Outsider]

5 hours ago, TD. said:

A very nice Savage Thompson. Thank you for sharing.

I would really like to see some crisp in focus pictures of all the British markings except for the barrel markings. The barrel markings are not military but done at a civilian proof house prior to your Savage being exported to the USA. A Freedom of Information Act would tell when this Savage was first registered with the IRS on the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record. Of course, you know who you purchased it from and they know where they purchased it from. Now is a great time to be obtaining that information. 

Regarding uniform finish, that is a sure sign of a refinished Thompson. Savage Thompson receivers and frames were a dullish blue color via a dulite finish while the barrels are often a bright blue color; the compensators are usually a brighter blue. I can't tell by the pictures if the finish on your receiver and frame is the original finish but my first thoughts when reviewing the pictures were this may be an original finished Thompson. 

 

The proof marks are small and do not show up well. Best shot I got of them is on the actuator.

Receiver and frame is parked, but I do not see any pitting so I do not know why they refinished it.

Comp is about the same blue as the barrel. Looks bad in the pictures as I was taking pictures as I took it apart to clean it because it was a pig.

[SP Sarge]

Looks great. 5 or 6 digit serial number, I'm going to guess 5?....never  mind I see 6 digits in a diff photo. Was curious because of the features in regards to the serial number range. 

Edited December 31, 2022 by SP Sarge

[Outsider]

I took the frame apart last night instead of watching the festivities on tv so I could clean it and all the parts in the frame are all marked with either a script s or block s.

[TSMGguy]

Nice Lend-Lease M1928A1 Thompson. Congrats! 

[rpbcps]

Nice Thompson, with relocated sling swivel attachments. 

Would a Lend-Lease 1928A1 be fitted with a horizontal or vertical grip? I know the earlier pre Lend-Lease M1928s were predominantly fitted with the vertical foregrips 

Edited January 1, 2023 by rpbcps

[TD.]

I think most of the Cash & Carry Thompson guns sold to the British were equipped with vertical fore grips. Of course, these would not have the US and A1 nomenclature markings. When the US government assumed control of the Thompson production at Savage Arms sometime during the summer months of 1941, I believe the model designated for production was the US Model of 1928 A1 and the Thompson guns were so marked. Of course,, the horizontal fore grip was standard on this 28A1 model. The last British Cash & Carry contract was ended by the US government after 8,000 guns were purchased. The remaining 42,000 guns under this contract were provided to the British via the Lend-Lease Act. I am away from home without my books or research material so double check with what I have written in Great Britain - The Tommy Gun Story to be sure.  

If the frame and receiver of Outsider's 200,000 serial numbered Savage have been parkerized, I would guess this happened in Great Britain, probably by INTERARMS, preparing this Thompson (and many others) for export to the USA. I would also guess a new USGI spare parts barrel was installed prior to it being received by the Proof House.

All good stuff!!!

[Outsider]

Thanks to everyone on their positive comments and history of this gun. It was a loonngg wait for this one, but am very glad it came my way.

[Outsider]

BTW. Forgrip is marked "s". Pistol grip is not marked, and butt stock only has a 4 digit number as well as the butt plate has a 4 digit number. Bummer that the butt stock is 600 under my gun and the plate is 79 higher.

[gijive]

2 hours ago, Outsider said:

BTW. Forgrip is marked "s". Pistol grip is not marked, and butt stock only has a 4 digit number as well as the butt plate has a 4 digit number. Bummer that the butt stock is 600 under my gun and the plate is 79 higher.

Outsider,

Are you suggesting the the number on the wood of you’re gun is 600 under your gun’s serial number.  I’m not sure how that could be, since your gun has a six-digit number and the early Savage stocks only had four-digit numbers?  The numbers were repeated, apparently until 9999, then started over.  The gun has been refurbished before shipment back to the US.  The butt plate and butt stock originally matched, but the serial number of the gun was never intended to match the butt stock numbers.

Anyway, it is a nice looking example.

[Outsider]

I was referring to the last 4 digits of my serial number. May not have been originally intended to match, but would have been cool if they did.

[gijive]

4 minutes ago, Outsider said:

I was referring to the last 4 digits of my serial number. May not have been originally intended to match, but would have been cool if they did.

Okay, got your meaning.

[Outsider]

Here are some more photos of the stampings I found for TD.

First a better picture of the receiver stamp.

Second is a stamping on the fore grip sling swivel.

And third is stamping on the underside of the stock sling swivel.

And last but not least are a couple of pictures of what I think are my coolest mag that came with the gun.

[BillyDixon]

could we see a better photo of the magazine, whats that star stamoed on it ? just askin

[Outsider]

The star and the other stamp on the bottom are Israeli, and the soldered holes are from the british. Otherwise it is just an Auto Ordnance mag.

[brveagle]

Thanks for sharing. I have a lend lease thompson that's pending that time consuming form 4 approval. Neat to see one that looks so similar. 

 

[rpbcps]

On 1/1/2023 at 7:28 PM, TD. said:

I think most of the Cash & Carry Thompson guns sold to the British were equipped with vertical fore grips. Of course, these would not have the US and A1 nomenclature markings. When the US government assumed control of the Thompson production at Savage Arms sometime during the summer months of 1941, I believe the model designated for production was the US Model of 1928 A1 and the Thompson guns were so marked. Of course,, the horizontal fore grip was standard on this 28A1 model. The last British Cash & Carry contract was ended by the US government after 8,000 guns were purchased. The remaining 42,000 guns under this contract were provided to the British via the Lend-Lease Act. I am away from home without my books or research material so double check with what I have written in Great Britain - The Tommy Gun Story to be sure.  

 

Tom,

Thanks for that repy.

In my own collection I have a deactivated (Dewat)  1928A1 which is 'TOMMY GUN' marked, and that came with a horizontal foregrip, hence my question. That is not to say over the years someone did not change the foregrip. In Dec. I bought a nice chequered horizontal foregrip from a dealer in the UK. 

 
With my collection, I like to do as much research as possible, and this is some information I have discovered about my 'TOMMY GUN' marked 1928A1: 

" ‘Tommy gun’ 162650 was part of an order placed by Britain during the initial ‘cash and carry’ period of ‘MODEL OF 1928’ Thompsons. This order of 50,000 ‘MODEL OF 1928’ guns was placed just before the introduction of the U.S. Lend Lease Program in March 1941. 
Savage was still using an early roll stamp for the ‘MODEL OF 1928’ markings at the time.  However, under the Lend Lease Act, the US government assumed ownership of the guns that were supplied to foreign armed forces, and the Act stated that the guns had to be marked as U.S. Property.  
So, the "US" and "A1" were retrospectively added by hand stamping them to the 42,000 guns, (including 162659), from this order. As they were hand stamped the "."s after the "U" and the "S", were not added.  Somewhere around the 200,000-serial number range, Savage began using a new roll stamp marked ‘U.S. MODEL OF 1928 A1’, so everything looked tidier. 
So, this example would have been part of the War offices 5th consignment of Thompsons, and the first batch of lend lease US 1928 A1’s, to be shipped to Great Britain in 1941."

I do believe most of this information was obtained from your book, "Great Britain - The Tommy Gun Story". and I would recommend that book to anyone who has an interest in the early WW2 period of the Thompson gun history.

Stay safe

Richard

Edited January 4, 2023 by rpbcps
Repeated word