APEXgunparts Posted January 3, 2023 Report Share Posted January 3, 2023 I spent the long holiday weekend getting familiar with a 1944 dated Russian PPs-43 that was made in Factory No. 828 NKMV (Peoples Commissariat of Mine Armament), Moscow, Maker marked "C" for Scetmach Factory. I have read this factory produced 530,000 of these guns before the war ended. I can see why these were developed to replace the PPsH-41, it used less material, was faster to manufacture, weighed less, and was easier to handle and shorter due to the folding stock. The magazine system was double stack, double feed so more reliable than the PPsH-41 double stack to single feed, and appears easier to form during manufacturing than that PPsH-41 stick magazine. I also noted that the designer, Alexey Sudaev, addressed a couple of issues that other SMG's of the day had not. The common issue with other open bolt guns of WW2 was that in the original designs the gun could be dropped on its butt, muzzle up and the impact would lock the bolt onto the sear, or worse NEARLY fully cock it and if a loaded magazine was inserted cause it to fire when the bolt returned forward. Changes to the MP-40 and the STEN cocking handle and receiver body corrected this. On the PPs-43 the safety (located on the front side of the trigger guard) will lock the bolt to the rear OR lock the bolt securely forward. Another issue of the SMG's of that time is wear to the firing pin tip that is usually left prominent on the bolt face when the pocket for the cartridge base is milled away. The MP-40, MP-28 and Lanchester do allow the firing pin to be replaced (but the part is not simple), but on all the STEN's, M1A1, M3/M3A1, PPsH-41 when the firing pin wears down the entire bolt must be replaced. The PPs-43 and the earlier PPs-42 design has a replaceable simple firing pin that sits into a pocket in the bolt face and is retained by the "leg" of the extractor which is held in place by the extractor plunger and spring (see picture linked from this very informative web page https://www.m9130.info/pps-sudaev-submachine-gun ) I was able to swap a firing pin from a later bolt into an earlier model and restore function to the matching numbered bolt for the gun I was familiarizing myself with! I certainly am impressed with the design work and thought Alexey Sudaev put into the PPs-43. This was a gun designed under the stresses and demands of wartime, and still the lessons learned from other designs were incorporated into the firearm. Yes, the stock does lock up more securely than does the MP-40 folder! I never thought much about Soviet era designs, but I think I need to reevaluate those impressions. I look forward to having a day at the range with the PPs-43, see how it compares to the PPsH-41. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeRanger Posted January 3, 2023 Report Share Posted January 3, 2023 8 hours ago, APEXgunparts said: The MP-40, MP-28 and Lanchester do allow the firing pin to be replaced (but the part is not simple), but on all the STEN's, M1A1, M3/M3A1, PPsH-41 when the firing pin wears down the entire bolt must be replaced. Richard, The PPSh-41 has a removable/replaceable firing pin held in place by a cross pin, a feature that was copied over by the Yugoslavs in the M49/57 http://www.ppsh41.com/bolt.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APEXgunparts Posted January 3, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2023 7 hours ago, StrangeRanger said: Richard, The PPSh-41 has a removable/replaceable firing pin held in place by a cross pin, a feature that was copied over by the Yugoslavs in the M49/57 http://www.ppsh41.com/bolt.gif Interesting. Now you are going to make me look at my spare bolt tonight! I wonder if the PPD-38 and PPD-40 had the same replaceable firing pin and how it is retained. I also forgot to include using the drive spring guide rod as an ejector as another clever design feature of the PPs-43. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeRanger Posted January 3, 2023 Report Share Posted January 3, 2023 (edited) The early PPDs used a floating firing pin driven by a cam as the bolt goes into battery, similar concept but different design from the '28 TSMG or the Beretta 38A See at 9:30 in this video https://www.forgottenweapons.com/soviet-ppd-40-degtyarevs-submachine-gun/ Edited January 3, 2023 by StrangeRanger Correction and added link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekraps Posted January 4, 2023 Report Share Posted January 4, 2023 I have 5 spare PPSH41 bolts and all have a removable firing pin. Hardly imagine it wearing out but... if it did, then the numbered bolt would still match the gun. Autoweapons has a nicely refurbished PPS43 for sale. If I only had the cash..., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APEXgunparts Posted January 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 2 hours ago, Rekraps said: I have 5 spare PPSH41 bolts and all have a removable firing pin. Hardly imagine it wearing out but... if it did, then the numbered bolt would still match the gun. Autoweapons has a nicely refurbished PPS43 for sale. If I only had the cash..., I looked at my PPsH-41 bolts and they do indeed have a replaceable firing pin. The Polish made PPs-43 bolts follow the same design as the Russian bolts. On my PPs-43 the firing pin was worn down 0.5 MM from the nominal length (I sourced the measurements from the translated PPsH-41 / PPs-43 manual that APEX sells) It dented primers, but didn't set them off. Replaced with one from another Russian bolt, and it works great now. What does Autoweapons want for a transferable PPs-43? Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeRanger Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 Not to change the subject but what is with Autoweapons? They have an almost unbelievable amount of inventory, more than everyone else combined. Is this stuff they have in their vault or are they brokering it for others? Also is it just me or do they really have the least user friendly web site in history? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekraps Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 I can address both posts, as I have dealt with Auto Weapons (Armament Services Intl) and Maura on several occasions and inquired into the price of the PPS43. Clearly the PPS has been reconditioned, but its a C&R (as they all are) and it looks fantastic. ASI price when I asked was $36K. High end, but if I had the cash.... Yes the website is hard to use, scrolling and scrolling down, but the pics are good and the descriptions are good also. They do not negotiate.. at all. I bought a DLO / Andrewski Sterling from them last year and wore myself out trying to get a better price point. No go. What Maura did agree to, was to include some accessories with the purchase. Good. A year later, the price of the gun is higher on the retail market, so I am happy. Plus the gun was 100% as advertised. They have a MP35 I wanted also... $35K, and a Thompson M1A1 that is just gorgeous. If you look under parts and accessories they have lots of cool stuff also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxfaxdude Posted February 12, 2023 Report Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) On 1/5/2023 at 5:28 AM, Rekraps said: I can address both posts, as I have dealt with Auto Weapons (Armament Services Intl) and Maura on several occasions and inquired into the price of the PPS43. Clearly the PPS has been reconditioned, but its a C&R (as they all are) and it looks fantastic. ASI price when I asked was $36K. High end, but if I had the cash.... Yes the website is hard to use, scrolling and scrolling down, but the pics are good and the descriptions are good also. They do not negotiate.. at all. I bought a DLO / Andrewski Sterling from them last year and wore myself out trying to get a better price point. No go. What Maura did agree to, was to include some accessories with the purchase. Good. A year later, the price of the gun is higher on the retail market, so I am happy. Plus the gun was 100% as advertised. They have a MP35 I wanted also... $35K, and a Thompson M1A1 that is just gorgeous. If you look under parts and accessories they have lots of cool stuff also. Rekraps -- about prices... About 6 months ago, I bought a MP35 in very good condition via Ed Holtz for $19,650. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGaerCOl_A8 Edited February 12, 2023 by maxfaxdude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxfaxdude Posted February 12, 2023 Report Share Posted February 12, 2023 I also purchased a PPS 43 from Midwest Tactical for $32,310 in March 2022. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekraps Posted February 13, 2023 Report Share Posted February 13, 2023 16 hours ago, maxfaxdude said: I also purchased a PPS 43 from Midwest Tactical for $32,310 in March 2022. I know Ed, almost purchased a MP43 from him a year ago. that MP35 looks really nice. I could never figure out why the Germans moved the magazine well to the right..... Any idea? Yes Autoweapons does charge a premium... I know. Their items are always primo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxfaxdude Posted February 14, 2023 Report Share Posted February 14, 2023 (edited) Apparently, no one knows for sure why the gun feeds from the right side of the receiver. Edited February 14, 2023 by maxfaxdude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekraps Posted February 17, 2023 Report Share Posted February 17, 2023 Maybe Germany had a "woke" moment. Ha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsonlmg41 Posted February 18, 2023 Report Share Posted February 18, 2023 On 2/13/2023 at 11:51 PM, maxfaxdude said: Apparently, no one knows for sure why the gun feeds from the right side of the receiver. Occam's razor, someone on the project was left handed. Left handed "features" are not that uncommon in a number of designs. Even if the original designer is not, there's always an "editor" of some sort on every project where one person does not do the entire thing from start to finish. Having just finished up the Owen project, while Evelyn Owen was not LH, someone high up at Lysaght's was, or the sights would be on the other side like the Bren. At some point, when I get one I'll have a better basis for the theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeRanger Posted February 18, 2023 Report Share Posted February 18, 2023 Ian has some theories on the RH feed beginning at 4:30 in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk_kO3D-AN4 Some of the comments discuss the issue as well. I tend to think that "the hold it with the (left) support hand, change mags with the right" makes the most sense. That is a heavy Gen 1 gun, not quite a pound heavier than an MP28.II and only a few ounces lighter than a Lanchester. Holding it up with the firing hand while changing mags is likely not as easy as it sounds. The right hand change might actually be faster to reacquire the target Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekraps Posted February 21, 2023 Report Share Posted February 21, 2023 The only ;reason I have not bought a MP35 was for just that reason. I can't get by the right hand mag.... Maybe I should change my thinking. I love the PPS 43's but (always a but) to me it's like buying a STEN, the gun is just soooooooo cheaply made I have issues in my brain rectifying the cost against the actual physical object. Probably need to rethink that also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeRanger Posted February 21, 2023 Report Share Posted February 21, 2023 Do a left- handed mag change with your Lanchester and pay attention how awkward it is to handle. Then support it with your left hand and pantomime a mag change with your right. You'll get Bergmann's concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekraps Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 18 hours ago, StrangeRanger said: Do a left- handed mag change with your Lanchester and pay attention how awkward it is to handle. Then support it with your left hand and pantomime a mag change with your right. You'll get Bergmann's concept. I'll give it try next time i take it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyDixon Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 sam colt was a lefty, look at his designs, just sayn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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