Thompson parts shipped from overseas

[pvt81pvi]

Can Thompson smg parts be shipped to the US from overseas?

Thanks for your replies

[HHollow]

The barrel and upper receiver can not come to the US intact.

You should get a "atf form 6" import permit for any parts shipment worth more than about $100.  This can be filled out as an individual (non FFL, non SOT) as long as the parts are for personal use only.  List EVERY significant part.  The ATF no longer allows listing of groupings like "fire control group", and  "stock assembly".  Be sure to give them your email address and then you will be emailed the permit rather than waiting for usps.  And if you make a good effort and more information is needed the agent will email you and there will be immediate resolution.  For example, when asking to import an unregulated receiver (ie AR15 upper) the agent will always ask for a representative photo.

The permit is generally granted in less than 30 days, costs nothing, and lasts for 2 years.

You might want to get a permit even for an item that looks like it is worth less than $100.  The atf will be the decider of value and a form 6 is an insurance policy against confiscation.

Edited March 20 by HHollow

[pvt81pvi]

I should have clarified, I live in Pennsylvania, and I’m wondering if a dealer in Europe can ship the parts to me.

[SparksNArcs]

I have ordered parts (stocks grips and small hardware) from AMS Militaria in Belgium with no trouble, shipped fairly quickly.

[pvt81pvi]

Thank you for your replies and assistance

[TD.]

SparksNArcs,

Did you file an ATF Form 6 prior to importing the parts you described?

HHollow,

I agree with your post as I filed an ATF Form 6 many years ago for the importation of some Colt small parts. The Form was approved once I understood the parts I was importing were classified as Implements of War." After that, the transaction and importation proceeded smoothly. The ATF employees were very helpful.

What I noticed when filling out the Form 6 was section 9b dealing with articles sought for importation containing parts or components produced by or for the U.S. military or manufactured with U.S. military technical data or assistance, and the articles were provided by the U.S. government to a foreign government through a grant or foreign military sales program. If block 9b is applicable and checked, a written retransfer authorization from the Department of State must be attached to the application or the applications will be denied.

It would seem to me all but the earliest Savage Thompson submachine guns and parts sold to the British military under cash and carry along with a few more early sales, i.e., Canada, would be exempt from this section. After the Lend-Lease Act was passed in March 1941 and implemented, all Thompson guns and parts manufactured until the end of the war would seem to fall under this section and require a retransfer authorization from the Department of State. 

I am curious if I am reading too much into Section 9b on the ATF Form 6. I have no issues with commercially manufactured and sold Thompson parts such as from Colt's. The World War II parts give me pause. Has anyone found this to be an issue?   

[SparksNArcs]

4 hours ago, TD. said:

SparksNArcs,

Did you file an ATF Form 6 prior to importing the parts you described?

HHollow,

I agree with your post as I filed an ATF Form 6 many years ago for the importation of some Colt small parts. The Form was approved once I understood the parts I was importing were classified as Implements of War." After that, the transaction and importation proceeded smoothly. The ATF employees were very helpful.

What I noticed when filling out the Form 6 was section 9b dealing with articles sought for importation containing parts or components produced by or for the U.S. military or manufactured with U.S. military technical data or assistance, and the articles were provided by the U.S. government to a foreign government through a grant or foreign military sales program. If block 9b is applicable and checked, a written retransfer authorization from the Department of State must be attached to the application or the applications will be denied.

It would seem to me all but the earliest Savage Thompson submachine guns and parts sold to the British military under cash and carry along with a few more early sales, i.e., Canada, would be exempt from this section. After the Lend-Lease Act was passed in March 1941 and implemented, all Thompson guns and parts manufactured until the end of the war would seem to fall under this section and require a retransfer authorization from the Department of State. 

I am curious if I am reading too much into Section 9b on the ATF Form 6. I have no issues with commercially manufactured and sold Thompson parts such as from Colt's. The World War II parts give me pause. Has anyone found this to be an issue?   

I was not aware such ATF forms existed, and the shop did not require anything other than a credit card and a valid shipping address. Most of what they had were small parts, no receiver sections or frames. I grabbed a compensator and some British used buttstocks and grips, so hopefully the ATF doesn't get upset. I've previously purchased rifle parts from Italy for one of my Carcano carbines; no trouble there either.

[mbc230]

I am very intrigued by this Topic as parts in the US have for the most part dried up. When the parts were ordered did the ATF have to go through the list of parts coming into the US before you were able to receive them? Did it cost any money to file the Form 6? Thank you.

[APEXgunparts]

It is actually US Customs that inspects the shipments coming into the USA.
It is ATF paperwork, with US DoS / Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC) approval for International Traffic in Arms Regulation (ITAR) compliance.
Remember the parts you are discussing are military weapons components (described as "implements and articles of war").
It is an additional level of complication when those parts are of US origin.

For example, a large US based importer we work with had a form 6 rejected for a small batch of material because the parts were for a US 1917 Enfield rifle.
The seller was unable to provide documentation that the parts had been purchased from the US Gov't (foreign military sales (FMS)) versus having been provided by the US Gov't (Foreign Military Aid (FMA).

Richard

 

Edited March 22 by APEXgunparts

[TD.]

Richard,

Excellent reply. I am not surprised at the rejection. Please expound as this is a great subject. What can an individual buy overseas?

I believe that is the problem with WWII Thompson parts. Yes, some Thompson guns and parts were purchased by other countries in the beginning of WWII but all these countries and many more received Thompson guns and parts as part of Lend-Lease Act or a military assistance program. I was able to show the Colt era parts I imported were purchased by a foreign country prior to the USA entering WWII. 

[mbc230]

22 hours ago, APEXgunparts said:

It is actually US Customs that inspects the shipments coming into the USA.
It is ATF paperwork, with US DoS / Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC) approval for International Traffic in Arms Regulation (ITAR) compliance.
Remember the parts you are discussing are military weapons components (described as "implements and articles of war").
It is an additional level of complication when those parts are of US origin.

For example, a large US based importer we work with had a form 6 rejected for a small batch of material because the parts were for a US 1917 Enfield rifle.
The seller was unable to provide documentation that the parts had been purchased from the US Gov't (foreign military sales (FMS)) versus having been provided by the US Gov't (Foreign Military Aid (FMA).

Richard

 

WOW! This potentially could be a very lengthily discussion as I am just an individual looking for Thompson parts. I am trying to understand this as an individual and not an importer I would need to show proof that they were purchased from the US and then sold to that foreign entity. Is this accurate? I do not want to open up a can of worms here and go through the process finding out I am wrong and get the ATF on me. Can I buy any parts for a Thompson from overseas as long as it is under $100.00 as an individual without filing the form 6? Thank you help educating me as I am very ignorant when it comes to this process. 

[APEXgunparts]

You are correct that this is an involved topic!
Importing anything has its own sets of US Gov't / US Customs regulations.
In a recent discussion on the topic the subject of importing wood was brought up, it requires USDA approval, they have their own forms (PPQ).
Now that the US Commerce department has a greater role in imports my info is a bit dated.
Google is your friend here, as well as the search engines on US Gov't web sites.
Do your homework and do your best to comply with the law, remember its your signature on the bottom line, stick to the truth, don't be intentionally vague.
I think that $100 limit is now $50, (I could be wrong on that) and you also have to check the list of proscribed countries where as a US citizen or company you are not allowed to purchase certain classes of items.
For instance now is not a good time to buy weapons parts from Iran or Russia!
Most of the time violations of import regulations winds up with your items being seized by US Customs and you are out the funds (here are the latest records of seizures).

U.S. Customs and Border Protection

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

However, sometimes individuals get a visit from Homeland Security who are there to explain to you in writing that you have violated a regulation.
That is where being able to demonstrate your efforts to comply with the regulations can be a benefit.
NEVER lie on a US Gov't form, that will get you in trouble as it demonstrates your intention was to "smuggle" items into the USA.
AS always my advice is worth what you paid for it!
There are good attorneys who specialize in the current import regulations, they are a good deal compared to what criminal defense attorney's cost.

Richard

[Varminter]

Gov't overreach at it's finest.

[TD.]

Thanks Richard. Great information and a word to the wise for the members of this forum.

This is why I do not order machine gun parts from outside the USA: 

PUBLICATION/POSTING START: March 10, 2023

DEADLINE TO FILE A CLAIM: April 09, 2023

LOS ANGELES

2023272000159201-0001-0000, Seized on 02/13/2023; At the port of LAX INTL ARPT; 1928A1 THOMPSON ACUATOR MACHINE GUN PART; 1; EA; Valued at $100.00; For violation of 19 USC 1595a(c)(2)(A), 26 USC 5845(a)&(b), 26 USC 5844

And I definitely do not want anyone with a badge or gun knocking on my door - unless asking for directions!  

[colt21a]

And do not post on a public forum.whatever you intend to do.be happy in your own mind.

The world does not have to know.

[mbc230]

I guess that is why I will take the advise of TD and just buy items within the US and it sounds so complicated and well to much hassle at this point for me and I would like to avoid those visits as well. Thank you for all valuable information.

[Varminter]

16 hours ago, TD. said:

Thanks Richard. Great information and a word to the wise for the members of this forum.

This is why I do not order machine gun parts from outside the USA: 

PUBLICATION/POSTING START: March 10, 2023

DEADLINE TO FILE A CLAIM: April 09, 2023

LOS ANGELES

2023272000159201-0001-0000, Seized on 02/13/2023; At the port of LAX INTL ARPT; 1928A1 THOMPSON ACUATOR MACHINE GUN PART; 1; EA; Valued at $100.00; For violation of 19 USC 1595a(c)(2)(A), 26 USC 5845(a)&(b), 26 USC 5844

And I definitely do not want anyone with a badge or gun knocking on my door - unless asking for directions!  

 

I recently acquired a Colt with a two-piece actuator and was looking for a Mil actuator.  Saw those overseas ones and was mildly tempted but sourced one stateside.

 

[rpbcps]

Out of curiosity, in the U.S., do magazines fall into the category of weapons parts?

[mbc230]

On 3/24/2023 at 9:13 AM, rpbcps said:

Out of curiosity, in the U.S., do magazines fall into the category of weapons parts?

Some large capacity magazines are not allowed in some US states, but we can ship mags anywhere within the US as long as it is allowed by that specific state. I would think you could not import a Mag into the US, because I think it would still be considered under the Form 6 rules. This is just what I have read.

[rpbcps]

2 minutes ago, mbc230 said:

Some large capacity magazines are not allowed in some US states, but we can ship mags anywhere within the US as long as it is allowed by that specific state. I would think you could not import a Mag into the US, because I think it would still be considered under the Form 6 rules. This is just what I have read.

All noted thanks.👍 I was just curious.

[mbc230]

1 hour ago, rpbcps said:

All noted thanks.👍 I was just curious.

Your welcome!

[HHollow]

On 3/24/2023 at 8:13 AM, rpbcps said:

Out of curiosity, in the U.S., do magazines fall into the category of weapons parts?

disclaimer: I have never imported anything made in the USA and have no experience with those particular rules

Magazines are considered weapons parts and require a form 6 if the value is over $100, and the AFT gets to determine that value.  So if a magazine is worth importing it is also worth a form 6. 

 

 

 

[First Sergeant]

I recall purchasing a non-cross bolt 28 stock from an Ebay seller "in the Detroit area."  This was back when they were very very tough to find.  Upon arrival the outside of the package read 'old wood handle.'   You guessed it, it was shipped from Windsor Canada.  Yikes !!!!

[bug]

I ordered and received an AK stock set from Russia. The price was $70 and it was marked, "Wooden Puzzle Parts"..