FMV/Assessment GB Savage M1928A1

[gijive]

They changed the font style when they went to the U.S. Model of 1928 A1.  The previous versions had the US and A1 hand stamped before and after the Model of 1928.  The gun has been re-blued, that is all.  It is also the last version of the 1928 Model receiver made by Savage.

[laurencen]

the pantograph would be difficult tracing a actual 1:1 scale, its all in the opperator but having one and many hours of use ideaky use a template of 5 times to 10 times what you are engraving, at 10 times a picture could be used and the results are quite decent.

these days we take a picture of the text we want to engrave, load it into the cad/cam program and edit as required, then send it to the cnc machine, for the engraving on the reciever I would not use a ball cutter, the best way is a carbide point at 30 to 40 degrees grind, we then scratch the engraving into the part, results are not the same as roll stamping but verry decent.

 

also having done toolmaking for 50 years even with a magnifying gladd doubt I could trace actual engraving though I have touched up some with a Foredom hand engraver, its a small handtool that attaches to a motor, the head instead of revolving works like a mini jackhammer, use a chissel bit and you can redo stamped letters to clean them up

[rpbcps]

On 6/12/2023 at 11:22 PM, reconbob said:

     Well, that is most interesting and does muddy the water. The wider, flatter letters are much different

than my two samples. BUT, on the Mendiola gun the left side engraving appears very wide, smooth and flat

bottomed and on the Sturm gun it is deeper, not as wide, with (I think) a more noticeable rounded bottom.

Regardless of authentic vs. not-authentic the two markings are not close to being the same. I wonder why the

left side engraving is so much wider than the right side engraving? And looking again at the Sturm look how wide

and deep all the letters are, except for the T's - especially the second T in AUTOMATIC which compared to the

other letters is barely there. As if the T's were pressed/engraved and everything else was ball endmill machined.

I don't get it. Is this a serial number thing? Before a certain number thin, after a certain number wide? I am still voting

for not original on the Sturm. Maybe re-engraved and the guy used a receiver like the Mendiola receiver to copy?

Bob

Sturm

 

Mediola 

I have a couple of Model of 1928's in my collection and two Savage 1928A1's. The earlier example and the two 1928's all have the full half circle on the U and The middle V in the M's going down to about 1/2 way to the bottom of the letter.

But the later variation serial number, 541933, has the "full height" M and "flat bottomed" U letters like the Sturm gun. 

My collection is in the UK and all deactivated. 541933 is well worn and seen service in Commonwealth forces in far east, no refinish on it at all.

Edited June 14 by rpbcps
Typo

[rpbcps]

6 hours ago, gijive said:

They changed the font style when they went to the U.S. Model of 1928 A1.  The previous versions had the US and A1 hand stamped before and after the Model of 1928.  The gun has been re-blued, that is all.  It is also the last version of the 1928 Model receiver made by Savage.

Just been reading up on this, apparently Savage began using a new roll stamp marked 'U.S. MODEL OF 1928 A1’, somewhere around the 200,000 serial number range.

[reconbob]

 

OK, there are unanswered questions here...

Why does the right side of some of these receivers have such an obvious, noticeable difference

in the engraving vs. the left side. It's not even close - Right side:

 

Left side 

And also dramatic differences between left sides -

 

If you want to go down the road that its all "original", OK. But when did it change? What serial number

range? Did the process change from roll engraving to something else? None of these receivers look alike.

For all of the research, books, photos, trivia, forums like this, it seems like this topic has been completely overlooked.

I have spent a lifetime handling firearms. The engraving on Garand #400,000 looks exactly like the engraving

on Garand #3,000,000. Same with the Carbines and Springfields, and M1911's etc. etc. 

Bob

[laurencen]

the only thing I can think of during production the roll engraver had a issue, they switched to what looks like a stamping method and ball engraving, it would have been pantograph at that time.

does the engraving style change back on newer versions? the font on early models is non standard, I spent many hours creating this original font. 

 

[colt21a]

It was war time have you ever seen a Spreewerk cyq P-38. let me know i have seen 100's and owned dozens of them.that will tell it all.this Thompson as everybody states is a redo.{Not Original to the date made}enhanced, so it can be finished and marked in anything anybody used at that time, Including the wood.

bottomline is it worth $30 g today to somebody, If not the buyer passes on it. RON K.

[laurencen]

the obvious engraving using a ball cutter to me is not vintage, even in the 60s we used pantographs to engrave it was never a ball end unless letters were over 3/4 inch tall, a typical engraving bit was 30 to 40 degrees inclusive and harrp end, 

regarding the picture of the engraving with ball cutter it clearly removed all the blue to bare metal so not original, did the side of the reciever have rust pitting, faced off the engraving and recut?

after 70 years new information and discoveries turn up, quite amazing it was never noticed before

[Maine-iac]

On 6/12/2023 at 8:57 PM, Robert Henley said:

As soon as I saw it and the GB add which states in part:

"LIKE NEW CONDITION! APPEARS AS IF IT IS UNFIRED. LOOKS AS THOUGH IT SPENT WW2 TO PRESENT IN COSMOLINE!"

My quick analysis was it was obviously too good to be true.  My first thought was it looked like one of the Russian parts guns.

I'm not sure but I'd want to see the current ATF paperwork and FOIA history of this gun to trace its origins and history.

Unrelated to the current topic (mostly) but I didn't realize that it was possible to submit a FOIA request to trace the service history of a Thompson. 

 

That's something I'll have to look into once mind arrives sometime next year. 

[TD.]

Maine-iac,

Unfortunately, a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request to ATF does not provide the military service history of a Thompson submachine gun. What it does provide is the IRS/ATF registration history, which can be very educational. Most importantly, you will learn when it was first registered and by what method. Depending on the amount of redactions, you may be able to determine with a good degree of certainly who first registered it. You will definitely find out the number of past owners.

My latest book, Thompson: Colt's, West Hurley's & More, has a chapter on the new web based ATF FOIA request system, complete with step by step instructions and sample documents to guide a submission. Available on Amazon.com or directly from me (send me a PM for ordering instructions).   

[trenchcollector]

It sold on GunBroker for buy it now price of $38,999.....