Caveat Emptor "original" Savage trigger frames on Gunbroker

[reconbob]

  One of my customers pointed out to me original Savage M1928 frames on Gunbroker

sold by "Scotty57", which is apparently also McKay Enterprises. The frames are sold as original

Savage frames with no serial number. Also, one of the pictures has a trigger frame sticking out of

a Sioux Ordnance Depot wrapper. I bought one to check it out and I do not believe it is an original

Savage frame. it is quality machine work, but it is not original. When you put it next to an original

Savage frame you easily notice that -

   - the sides of the top of the trigger frame do not have round "swirls" from being blanchard ground

     but instead have tiny vertical striations from being profiled with an endmill.

   - the size of the engraving is larger than original Savage, not only FIRE/SAFE, etc. but especially the

      NO. S. The GEG inspectors mark is noticeably smaller than original Savage and the shape/font of the

      letters is different.

   - the frame I received has a coarse, thick flat black zinc phosphate coating. Now, the frames are described

     as being parkerized, but by using a Sioux Ordnance Depot wrapper, the strong implication is that this frame

      was packed for long term storage by Sioux Ordnance, which shut down in 1967. One problem - The GEG mark

      was stuck AFTER the frame was parkerized. You can tell because the black parkerizing is affected by the strike

      and is a grey color where the GEG is.

         The frame i received was in plain brown wrapping paper with a piece of standard packing tape. No Sioux

      Ordnance wrapper. Plus, the frame was not dipped in cosmoline, it was only WIPED with cosmoline no doubt

      to continue the Sioux Ordnance implication. But when parts are prepared for long term storage they are not

      wiped on the outside with cosmoline, but completely coated by dipping in cosmoline.

           I at first thought that maybe the seller thought they were original and was being duped by whoever made and

     sold them, but the use of the Sioux Ordnance wrapper, the GEG being the wrong size and struck after being

     parkerized, the incorrect engraving, the wiping down with cosmoline, and the "NO RETURNS" terms of sale tell

     me otherwise. So again, good quality frame, but if you figure on getting one so you can number it to match your

    mismatched Savage don't bother. When you put it on an original      Savage it will be an obvious fake.

     Original Savage 

Repro

Savage

Repro

   Repro

 

No cosmoline other than what oozed in the holes when they wiped it on

Sioux Ordnance wrapper - but not what you get...

Bob

[TSMGguy]

I suspect that this piece is exactly what it purports to be. Production processes changed from early M1928s to the end of M1928A1 production. There were continual refinements in the quest for faster and more efficient (cheaper) production.

 

[reconbob]

    Find and show me another Savage frame that looks like this one. In 40+ years I have never

seen ANY military AO or S trigger frame with these endmilled striations. If this was an improvement

in production time and technique, it would have been continued in the manufacture of M1/M1A1

trigger frames. In 40+ years I have never seen ANY military AO or S M1/M1A1 trigger frame with

these endmilled striations. Now that I think about it, I have never seen any trigger frame, West

Hurley, etc. with these striations. Savage guns and parts were blued, not parkerized.

How do you account for the GEG struck AFTER the part was parkerized?

The part number/drawing number for the M1928A1 trigger frame is either D35511 or D6535511. The

drawing number on the wrapper in the photo is not either one of those numbers. The seller has gone 

out of his way to promote the "original Savage/Sioux Ordnance" narrative.

   I am willing to be corrected. There are a lot of guys on this forum with original Savage M1928A1's

with matching trigger frames. I am sure many have digital cameras so I encourage them to send

photos...

 

Bob

[TD.]

Bob,
I saw this frame on gunbroker.com and had the same questions you have posted about. That said, the military Thompson guns are not something I have spent a lot of time studying. I do agree with your observations about the part and drawing numbers on the tag or sticker - the first thing I checked! I also agree the font used for the letters in the serial number area is not consistent with known examples. I would like to see some close-up pictures of the FIRE AND SAFE markings.

I am not crazy about the parkerized finish, especially if manufactured during World War II.

I am curious if the magazine slots are squared like the late production 1928 frames? Or rounded like the majority of 1928 frames.

Thank you for purchasing this frame and starting this thread.

[SP Sarge]

Mckay Enterprises | Thompson 1928 Frame (mckay-ent.com) 

 

[Bridgeport28A1]

An AR15.com thread with some McKay Enterprises info in it regarding AK flats and Nodak Spud.

They are close to me but I never have been to their location.

[richard w.]

Did George Goll put his mark on bare, unbuilt frames?

I would have guessed that he would inspect and mark only fully-finished Tommies, but that's only my guess.

Edited June 21, 2023 by richard w.
misspelling