Thompson barrels, MINT G.I. - no value?

[reconbob]

      I just sold (at GB auction) a MINT G.I. M1/M1A1 smooth barrel, and a MINT G.I. finned barrel.

The M1/M1A1 barrel went for $141.00, the M1928A1 barrel went for $156.00. These are MINT G.I.

barrels. To put this in context a new commercial Green Mountain aftermarket M1 barrel is $124.00,

a "New Made" M1 barrel from Apex is $129.95, a   M1928A1 barrel, finned, threaded for comp barrel

from Apex is $159.95. A new mfg. M1 barrel from Gun parts Corp is $181.00 and a new mfg. finned

M1928A1 barrel from Gun Parts Corp is $256.00.

    There is a lesson to be learned here, but i am not sure what it is. I would have thought that

the "value/price" for an original MINT G.I. barrel would be more than a new manufacture barrel.

Is this an outlier? Or are the Thompson guys (and I admit that I am one of them) starting to fade

away and with them loss of interest and value of Thompson items? A lot of us started watching

Vic Morrow and COMBAT when we were kids but thats now over 50 years ago. Band of Brothers

and Saving Private Ryan is now over 20 years ago...

Bob

 

 

[colt21a]

Bob you just answered that question, And those who watched the Untouchables. MOST MIGHT HAVE BEEN 14 or 15.PUTS THEM CLOSE TO 80 TODAY.I don't think they are buying anything Thompson related.

[Roland the Thompsongunner]

In my opinion it’s two things..one is the interest is fading as the older generation dies off and younger people just are not interested and two it’s the amount of stuff out there is at a saturation point where there is more supply than demand. The same thing happened to the WWI era guns. Prices are dropping on them. The younger generation want the Modern stuff like M16s and HK stuff. I too have lost interest in the collecting of WWII items and have started selling stuff off to fund other interests. My kids don’t want it so I figure I might as well use the money on what interests me now

Edited August 31 by Roland the Thompsongunner

[Rekraps]

32 minutes ago, Roland the Thompsongunner said:

In my opinion it’s two things..one is the interest is fading as the older generation dies off and younger people just are not interested and two it’s the amount of stuff out there is at a saturation point where there is more supply than demand. The same thing happened to the WWI era guns. Prices are dropping on them. The younger generation want the Modern stuff like M16s and HK stuff. I too have lost interest in the collecting of WWII items and have started selling stuff off to fund other interests. My kids don’t want it so I figure I might as well use the money on what interests me now

So correct! Remember when we were kids and Model-T's and 50's muscle cars were the rage... now you can't give them away.  Plus the new production items look, fit and feel OEM. 

[brveagle]

Ironically i sent you a PM a couple months back asking if you had a finned original barrel. When you didn't respond, i ended up paying almost $700 for a partial russian parts kit. 

The demand for usgi barrels is certainly real as each genuine barrel i bid on on GB went for quite a bit of money. Heck even this WH finned barrel went for $256. (1003699581) I just searched for completed auctions for 1928A1 barrel and i don't see your example listed. Could it have had a typo in the title and as such, didn't show up when people like me are searching? 

 

[TennesseeTaylor95]

3 hours ago, Roland the Thompsongunner said:

In my opinion it’s two things..one is the interest is fading as the older generation dies off and younger people just are not interested and two it’s the amount of stuff out there is at a saturation point where there is more supply than demand. The same thing happened to the WWI era guns. Prices are dropping on them. The younger generation want the Modern stuff like M16s and HK stuff. I too have lost interest in the collecting of WWII items and have started selling stuff off to fund other interests. My kids don’t want it so I figure I might as well use the money on what interests me now

I think you are onto something here, especially with the saturation point of particular items in the TSMG market. For example, I followed Reconbob's auction listings last summer for M1928A1 receiver nose pieces because I was in the market for one at the time. Anyways, here are six auction end dates with their final winning bids to show the fluctuation of what is relatively the same thing being sold over the course of two months.

Auction 1) 05/27/2022 $335, Auction 2) 06/06/2022 $429, Auction 3) 06/16/2022 $427, Auction 4) 06/29/2022 $385, Auction 5) 07/14/2022 $375, Auction 6) 07/28/2022 $264.

Looking at these prices, you can see where the value starts, then rises, and ultimately falls. I didn't record the number of bids on each auction so I am guessing here on the amount of activity of each auction, but my hunch is that the first auction didn't have a bunch of bidders due to not many people being aware of it/ possibly no one really knowing what the most recent value of M1928A1 front receiver noses. Then, once the cat was out of the bag, there were good bidding wars on the second and third auctions. Then, as time goes on, the winning bids continue to decrease over the subsequent three auctions. Once again, my hunch is that there are fewer bidders by the sixth auction (netting a lower final winning bid) as the small pool of bidders/demand for the item shrinks since they were winning the previous auctions. Now, I could be completely wrong here and it could all just be a fluke. 

As for the interests in the future generations of collectors, I have been seeing more youth at the militaria collectors show recently that I attend so I believe that there is still good interest in the older guns versus the modern firearm platforms. As one of the younger guys here, I can tell you that I have a great passion for the history of the thompson submachine gun, I just don't have the kind of disposable income like many others here to be able to go out and acquire many original parts at these current prices. That's not to say that the parts aren't worth what people are asking for them; I'm just too focused on having enough money for food, car repairs, dental work,etc. because the necessities come before the wants.

As for the barrels, I think that whoever won those barrels got some really great deals. If you have the time Reconbob, you might consider not selling any more barrels for a few months and then drop one or two here and there to create an artificial shortage of supply to fuel the " I gotta get this now because I don't know when I will come across another one" mindset. Just my long winded 2 cents on the matter.

[signal_4]

19 hours ago, reconbob said:

      I just sold (at GB auction) a MINT G.I. M1/M1A1 smooth barrel, and a MINT G.I. finned barrel.

The M1/M1A1 barrel went for $141.00, the M1928A1 barrel went for $156.00. These are MINT G.I.

barrels. To put this in context a new commercial Green Mountain aftermarket M1 barrel is $124.00,

a "New Made" M1 barrel from Apex is $129.95, a   M1928A1 barrel, finned, threaded for comp barrel

from Apex is $159.95. A new mfg. M1 barrel from Gun parts Corp is $181.00 and a new mfg. finned

M1928A1 barrel from Gun Parts Corp is $256.00.

    There is a lesson to be learned here, but i am not sure what it is. I would have thought that

the "value/price" for an original MINT G.I. barrel would be more than a new manufacture barrel.

Is this an outlier? Or are the Thompson guys (and I admit that I am one of them) starting to fade

away and with them loss of interest and value of Thompson items? A lot of us started watching

Vic Morrow and COMBAT when we were kids but thats now over 50 years ago. Band of Brothers

and Saving Private Ryan is now over 20 years ago...

Bob

 

 

BOB , I grabbed the M1/A1 barrel before that for $130 and honestly I need one more for a display if your willing to sell at that price again. With prices coming down have you lowered the price of a complete parts kit ? Or a lower trigger frame for M1/A1 ? 

While the younger crowd is more interested in modern stuff, me at 45, all I'm interested in is the WW2 stuff.

It also could be that people who are paying the higher prices are people in the business of dealing and selling or SOT builders and have enough inventory, while people like me who have spouses that have no interest in their husbands hobby of historical static displays, also limit their spending funds to poor mans collecting status LOL. 

[rpbcps]

Just wait till those Thompson's found in the Ukraine start filtering through as parts kits too. No doubt the big players are already eyeing up the booty 🤔💰💰

[APEXgunparts]

11 hours ago, rpbcps said:

Just wait till those Thompson's found in the Ukraine start filtering through as parts kits too. No doubt the big players are already eyeing up the booty 🤔💰💰

Even if you could import any firearms / machine guns from the Ukraine now the barrels will get torch cut.
Been that way since 2005.

Richard

[Maine-iac]

2 hours ago, APEXgunparts said:

Even if you could import any firearms / machine guns from the Ukraine now the barrels will get torch cut.
Been that way since 2005.

Richard

Ugh, and I forget, what was their reason for that again? Machinegun barrels not "sporting" in nature? I'll refrain from expressing my true feelings on the matter. Buncha overpaid, unprincipled, jackbooted goons.

[anjong-ni]

Great observation, Bob.

A "Thompson" is living HISTORY you can hold. Which, sadly, doesn't fascinate people like it used to,

as we keep making the same obvious mistakes over-and-over!

When I joined, I realized that THIS SITE was dedicated to those few individuals that owned, or were fascinated by, Thompsons.

Apparently the guns, kits and components are NOT "rare" at all, and caches continue to turn up all over the world,

The number of folks that will wear-out or shoot-out a part seems pretty small.

Our group is a limited number of individuals. Most of us don't OWN a Thompson.

But THIS is the fountain of knowledge. Share it with anybody you know that shows an interest...Phil.

[Phil Askew]

Bob E-Mail me at philfordparts@yahoo.com

[colt21a]

One day the last Thompson gunner will hold up HIS  gun to the sky and shout out....I DID IT.

AND WILL FALL TO THE EARTH AND REST...

[reconbob]

            The all-MINT M1A1 parts sets I got from Doug are all gone. Most of them sold for around $2000

with an occasional kit going a little higher or lower if sold on GB. I think this is/was a good fair price

considering that the stock and forend (with butplate and swivels) were still in the original 1952 wrappers,

and the barrel and bolt were in original wrappers, and all the other parts were in true MINT/un-used

condition. This is at a time when one of the importer/sellers was selling a heavily used kit with badly

chewed up wood and NO  barrel for $1200. 

     Trying to figure the price/value of Thompson parts will drive you crazy. There is another thread here

now about M1928A1 buttplates in used condition being sold for $99. The last one I sold on GB a few months

back went for $45 and it was MINT in the grease.

Bob

     

     

[Doug Quaid]

I don't see anything to indicate that interest in Thompsons is dying out.

As far as collector firearms go, Thompsons are associated with 2 very colorful historical eras:  1930s gangster wars and WWII.   You pretty much cannot do better than that, as far as collectability goes.  WWII is the biggest historic event in human history.

They CONSTANTLY make movies about 1930s gangsters and WWII.  They always show Thompsons blazing away.  That's going to keep interest alive for forever.  

I do not see prices on Thompson SMGs dropping, if anything they are going up.  I just saw a decent M1A1 go for $33k.

Part prices are kind of funny.  As long as people see parts in abundance, they don't seem to be motivated to buy them.  When I bought UZI extractors 10 years ago, they were $14 each.  Did any of you buy a big wad of them?  Nope.   Now you cannot even get 9mm extractors and 45acp are $80 to $100 each.  Parts are dirt cheap until the day they start disappearing from the market.  Then the desperation sets in and the prices go up 10x.

Edited September 16 by Doug Quaid

[Got Uzi]

The other thing about parts is the prices drop when quality repo parts come on the market for a better price than originals. Several places making good Thompson barrels now and it seems guys don’t care if it’s USGI or not these days as they just want a good shooter barrel. 
 

Remember this-we live in a world where people have paid more for a West Hurley 1928 over a USGI 1928 at auction so there is no logic to this mess anymore. 

[colt21a]

No Doug we all got it wrong I COULD HAVE BOUGHT 100 TRIGGER UNITS FOR $30,000 30 YEARS AGO.  AND TURNED TODAY FOR $3.5 MILLION. i HAVE TALKED WITH MANY MAJOR PLAYERS ON THAT IN THE PAST FEW YEARS.

And they all said right Ron everybody missed the boat on that one.....and you could have taken that today and bought the ten best Colt Thompsons you wanted AND PUT THE OTHER $2.5 MILL AWAY.

THAT WAS THE REAL TRUE INVESTMENT MONEY MAKER. NOT THE 20 G THOMPSON  20 YEARS AGO. AND DON'T START ME ON WES HURLEYS FOR $500 BUCKS. BACK IN 1985. i BOUGHT OVER 25. and like all the others sell it now. ALL GONE.

i know one guy still around that has his. and the guy who bought #177 from me  HE GONE.So enjoy what you can , Till you can't

have fun. 

[Doug Quaid]

Case in point:

All the guys who own the FN FNC rifle used to whine and puke about how you couldn't get new barrels for them.

So one of the well-known barrel makers made a run of barrels for them, and NOBODY BOUGHT THEM.

I remember the maker complaining about it, he made a couple hundred and sold 10.  When people see parts readily available, they don't feel motivated to buy.

Just taking a guess, I would bet that the reason that Thompson owners are buying aftermarket barrels is because they have a "shooter" like a West Hurley and they figure why bother putting a USGI barrel on it.   Or they are not aware that USGI barrels exist.

The NFA community is MICROSCOPIC compared to the broader gun market.  How many people are shopping for Thompson M1 barrels on a given day?  One or two maybe?   If those two guys don't shop on gunbroker, they might not realize that you even have a USGI barrel for sale.

Sometimes there is not one single full auto Thompson for sale on any marketplace in the USA.  This is a SMALL market, you are dealing with individuals, not giant wads of consumers.

Buyers are weird.  One time I sold a NIB set of yamaha speakers on ebay, started them at half price.  No buyers.   Relisted starting at $1.  Everyone went crazy trying to outbid each other, the speakers sold for more than they cost at Best Buy.   Go figure.

 

Edited September 16 by Doug Quaid

[colt21a]

You have that right i always tell my close gun buddies. out of every 1,000 you might have a 100 buyers and in that 100 maybe 5 buyers. and down to one when it comes to paying the tab of whatever you are selling. have a bunch of 45 autos i am selling for $500 each told ten guys directly about it they said unreal killer deal. crazy price.  only 2 stepped up to buy 2. so 8 to haul to SAR show.

$500 bucks chump change. go figure that one.

I expect first day at show they will gone in a few hours. and on the fnc the guys who bought the sears for them was smart.barrels on the originals they did last. so making a few hundred. he did not play that market right. I know i sold them from HOWCO in the 80's

a decent rifle. for $895.00.

Auctions are mostly all wacko.

 

[Maine-iac]

On 9/16/2023 at 12:20 PM, Doug Quaid said:

Buyers are weird.  One time I sold a NIB set of yamaha speakers on ebay, started them at half price.  No buyers.   Relisted starting at $1.  Everyone went crazy trying to outbid each other, the speakers sold for more than they cost at Best Buy.   Go figure.

 

I saw something quite similar to that happen at an auction for a semi auto Thompson once. It was missing its bolt, and had a bulge in the barrel. I thought to myself

"Well, if it goes cheap, that could be a fun gunsmith special gun to make into an SBR!"

Imagine my disbelief when it ended up going for more than MSRP, not even factoring in the buyers premium or the internet "convenience" fee, shipping, or transfer.

For a gun that's still in production and freely available!