Have you ever used Alliant 2400 to reload 45acp?

[Doug Quaid]

I have been trying to use up all my old reloading components recently.   I have 3 lbs of 2400.

I noticed that there are no official load data (like in the Lyman manual) for for 2400 for 45acp, but there is a lot of data for 44 Special.

I did a web search about it, and found a number of threads full of speculative blah blah about it in 45acp.  But nothing definitive.   Just people saying that it's a magnum powder, and it doesn't burn well at low pressures.  

But the starting loads from the Lyman manual for 44 Special are 10,000 psi.  Which is super low.  So if unburned powder is an issue, then why is it used for what amounts to indoor gallery loads in the 44 spl?

Seeing as how the 44 Special case is only 25% greater volume than the 45acp, I decided to try a starting level 44 Special load in the 45acp with a 230 grain bullet.

I chronographed it, and it was 1050 fps from my M1 Thompson, which means that it would be around 950 fps from a handgun with a 5" barrel.

So clearly, the smaller case is pumping up the pressure and velocity a little, but not to any degree that would give me any pause.  And all the powder burned fine, there was no unburned powder.

I am actually very conservative with reloading, this is the first time ever that I tried an experimental load.  The only reason I did it is because I definitely remember reading that 2400 was used as a 45 auto rim powder.  And the 44 spl load was listed as 10 ksi.  Which is nothing.

taking a guess, i would suspect that people were having problems with unburned powder in 5" handgun barrels, so they de-listed it as a 45 acp powder.  

anyone else ever tried it?



 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Doug Quaid

[Dan K]

I haven't run 2400 in a number of years and then only in 30 Carbine, 357 & 44 Mag rounds. 2400 is dirty at the higher pressures & flashy, assuming it would be real dirty like the old Unique at lower pressures.

You might find someone who can use it to trade you lb for lb.

[Doug Quaid]

UPDATE -

I didn't feel right about using a load without consulting published data (because it's pretty foolish to do that) so I scoured the internet and found a thread where someone claimed that Speer Manual No. 8 from 1971 had 2400 listed as an 45 Auto Rim load.

So I purchased this manual off of ebay, and sure enough it has a load listed for Alliant 2400 with a 230 bullet.

The funny thing is that all of the 45AR loads are a bit heavier than the loads listed for 45acp in the manual.  The max loads listed for 45acp are (more or less) the starting loads for 45AR.   Which is strange, because the max allowable pressure for 45AR is lower than 45acp.

A lot of the loads in the book look pretty hot, compared to later manuals.

So anyway, the 45AR load for 2400 in the manual is about 15% higher than the loads I tried with the 45acp.  So that was OK, no harm was done.

After all this poking around, I don't think I'll use 2400 for 45acp, there doesn't seem to be any point.  I ordered some Winchester WSF today, which is supposed to be an excellent 45acp and 9mm powder.

I would have ordered Alliant Unique, but it's not for sale anymore, and neither is Blue Dot.  Alliant has forgotten about their civilian customers apparently.  



 

Edited November 26, 2023 by Doug Quaid

[Rabbit57]

Dude, I wish we lived close by, I have a keg of Blue Dot and I would be happy to trade for 2400!

Mark

[Dan K]

I am about done running the "American" powders and will run VV. Cleaner & better powder for the same or less $ these days.

I have several old Speer manuals, including no. 8. Keep in mind when that was published in the early 70s, pressure testing was not near as advanced as today. There was not piezo electric transducers, a lot of the data was done by inspection, i.e., we have to beat the cases out with a rod and mallet, we've hit max. 

If you find a copy of the A Square manual, it has pressures listed. It is a very informative manual if you like data. It is out of print, if you track one down, it will be $150-200.

[Doug Quaid]

Rabbit57, it's only 2300 miles, you can make the trip in two days if you don't stop to sleep at all.   When you start seeing big green things, they're called "trees."   When you start smelling scrapple, funnel cake, cheesesteak, body odor and cow plop, you are in Pennsylvania.  If you start seeing a lot of Camaros being driven by guys with popped collars, you went too far, you're in New Jersey.  Make a u-turn and drive back into PA as quickly as possible.

The reason I used Alliant Unique all these years is because a.) it works great for literally everything and b.) it's found in every reloading manual for just about every single bullet type and weight.

When people talk about this powder or that powder, they always forget to mention that you cannot use the powder without published load data.  So it pays to buy a powder that shows up often in reloading manuals.  (Sure, I did use a 44 special 2400 load for 45acp, but it was a 7,000 psi gallery load.)

For example, if you want to reload 158 grain bullets in 9mm, you can find published load data for Unique.  You'd have to hunt for it, but it's there.

But since Alliant has decided they don't care if their civillian customers can get their product or not, then screw them.  I'm not doing a scavenger hunt every time I need more powder.  Powders like Winchester 231 have been in use for 50+ years, there is plenty of load data for them.

Some guy on gunbroker was selling an 8 lb keg of Unique in Harrisburg, and I almost bought it, and then I decided to move on to Winchester.  Eff them.

Regarding scrapple:  it's not made from guts.  (Well, it kind of is. Guts plus meat scraps and flour.)  It tastes like mushy sausage.  Delicious!

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by Doug Quaid

[Doug Quaid]

13 hours ago, Rabbit57 said:

Dude, I wish we lived close by, I have a keg of Blue Dot and I would be happy to trade for 2400!

Mark

Forgot to ask - why don't you want the Blue Dot?

Edited November 26, 2023 by Doug Quaid

[Doug Quaid]

5 minutes ago, Dan K said:

I am about done running the "American" powders and will run VV. Cleaner & better powder for the same or less $ these days.

I have several old Speer manuals, including no. 8. Keep in mind when that was published in the early 70s, pressure testing was not near as advanced as today. There was not piezo electric transducers, a lot of the data was done by inspection, i.e., we have to beat the cases out with a rod and mallet, we've hit max. 

If you find a copy of the A Square manual, it has pressures listed. It is a very informative manual if you like data. It is out of print, if you track one down, it will be $150-200.

Lyman manuals usually have the pressures listed as well.  Even the old ones.

[Rabbit57]

Doug, the Blue Dot was gifted to me a number of years ago, the owner used it in magnum shotgun shells. I use it for lead bullet loads in my .357 mag, but I have not used much of it at all. I don't have anything against it, I just don't have much use for it. 

I do use 2400, for lead bullet loads in most of my surplus military rifles. I also use 2400 in my .410 shotgun shells, it is excellent in both. In the cast bullet loads, it really shines, it is very consistent, and it is not position sensitive. It works for me. 

Mark

[Rabbit57]

Doug, you might get a kick out of this,

I went to the TATA show and shoot this year, it was a blast. I had never been to the mid-west, the trip to Columbus was a first for JoAnn and I. I thought OH was really beautiful, the architecture, the trees, even the weather was not bad to me. I was coming from AZ, and when I left AZ, it was over 100 degrees. I simply could not understand why anyone would load up the covered wagon and leave OH for AZ. 
I did enjoy your description of PA, and if PA is anything like OH, I would like to visit one day. 

Mark