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M3 Design and reliability


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So, as I'm sure Nick has covered in his book, the M3 and M3A1 are designed so that the bolt never touches the receiver. Instead it "floats" on two mainsprings with end plates that are fixed to the receiver. This means that the gun, as ugly as it is, will fire and fire and fire and fire. The only other SMG's that I am aware of that tried to distance the actual bolt surface from the receiver are the Sterlings (the bolt has lans) and the S&W M76 (receiver has lans). Of the three, I have to say that the at first bizarre design of the bolt and recoil group is the most robust for field and combat operations. IMO of course. 

Of course as great as the operating system is for the M3, the silly cocking handle and ejection port cover are glaring weaknesses!

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Looked at an Uzi bolt lately?  Clearly inspired by the sand-cut TSMG it rides on the corners with lots of space between the rest of the bolt and the inside of the receiver

And FWIW M3A1s and to a lesser degree M3s beat the living hell out of the back end of receiver, especially if you don't change the springs often enough.  They were a typical GM product, designed to be traded in for a new one every couple of years 🤣

Edited by StrangeRanger
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My M3A1 doesn't bother with a cocking handle. And I put a piece of leather at the rear of the receiver tube to somewhat cushion the bolt when it slams against it. Worked so far.

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36 minutes ago, StrangeRanger said:

Looked at an Uzi bolt lately?  Clearly inspired by the sand-cut TSMG it rides on the corners with lots of space between the rest of the bolt and the inside of the receiver

And FWIW M3A1s and to a lesser degree M3s beat the living hell out of the back end of receiver, especially if you don't change the springs often enough.  They were a typical GM product, designed to be traded in for a new one every couple of years 🤣

I just knew you'd chime in with an UZI fact.... just to pound my head in the sand because that is one of the few open bolt SMG's that I have yet to add to my collection. 

Fine... and no I have not seen an UZI bolt, however I can certainly believe that the IDF, in their middle east environment gave it careful thought!

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24 minutes ago, StrangeRanger said:

Putting in the larger back plate from an M3 will help a lot more but it won't solve the planned obsolescence thing

I actually installed a M3A1 back plate, no room for a buffer. I guess I'll order a replacement set of springs. How do you know when they are aging? 

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It’s well worth putting an M3 plate in the back. If you want the ease of taking it apart without taking off the lower (on an M3A1) then cut a slot in the plate for clearance so the ejector will pass through it.  

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4 hours ago, Got Uzi said:

It’s well worth putting an M3 plate in the back. If you want the ease of taking it apart without taking off the lower (on an M3A1) then cut a slot in the plate for clearance so the ejector will pass through it.  

I'm having trouble picturing what you guys are talking about... any pics?

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M3 guide rod set or back plate was a fully round disk that had a couple holes drilled in it and a couple flats to hold it for said drilling operation.  It makes contact with nearly the entire back end of the receiver.

 

M3A1 guide rod set or back plate is only 1/2" wide (going off memory here) and makes very little contact on the back of the receiver.

 

Less contact means all the backwards force of the bolt is being put into one small area and over time WILL stretch/crack/blow out the back of the receiever as well as egg out the guide rod locating holes.  You can "buffer" all you want on an M3A1 backer plate but it wont help much....and for the person who will say "it makes taking the gun apart easier" just remember this- WE ARENT IN COMBAT so it doesn't mean a darn thing to take the extra 60-90 seconds and drop the ejector housing out of the gun to remove the bolt assembly.  If that is too much of a mechanical difficulty for you and you just have to do it you own way, then cut a slot in an M3 backing plate so it'll clear the ejector when you remove the bolt assembly.  For a $32.5k to $35K if you are too darn cheap to put a $20 set of spring in or a $40-$50 M3 guide rod set in....you are just kidding yourself..... 

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I had not know there were different back plates until this discussion started, and FWIW my M3A1 has the M3 back plate so I'm set.  AS for springs, maybe Wolf has them?  They seem to carry all the major ones.  I'm gong to look myself right now.

 

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Well, Wolff doesn't list any, and they don't even have a search feature to check that way.  I have bought S&W 76 springs and others from them, so maybe we should request they make some.  I"ll check SARCO and others when I get a chance.

 

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That didn't take long, SARCO has M3 "driving springs" which has to be what we're after.  $13.00 each.

 

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Just now, BillinBama said:

That didn't take long, SARCO has M3 "driving springs" which has to be what we're after.  $13.00 each.

Oops, out of stock.

Just now, BillinBama said:

 

 

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32 minutes ago, BillinBama said:

That didn't take long, SARCO has M3 "driving springs" which has to be what we're after.  $13.00 each.

 

Sold out. My M3 has the M3A1 backplate. And..... I found a set of M3/M3a1 recoil springs on GB and bought them right away.

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48 minutes ago, Blanksguy said:

The guy on Gun-Broker has a lot of the recoil-springs for the Grease-Gun........more than we would use. He sells them in pairs.....and fast shipping.

Yep, I got a pair for $15! (plus shipping)

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Every spring I changed the recoil springs, sear, and sometimes the extractor (if it was worn) that was what I did Jan 1 every year to get it ready for the shooting season. 

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On 1/5/2024 at 8:52 PM, StrangeRanger said:

One whole pair?

Sure you have enough?

Plus... I already had an extra complete OEM bolt, guide rod/spring assembly, and just for kicks, one extra OEM bolt in box (with extractor and retaining pin). So, I do think I have enough.

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On 1/5/2024 at 2:36 PM, BillinBama said:

That didn't take long, SARCO has M3 "driving springs" which has to be what we're after.  $13.00 each.

Oops, out of stock.

On 1/5/2024 at 2:36 PM, BillinBama said:

I ordered two pair just in case....

 

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