Outside diameter of Swedish K shroud?

[Slowmo]

Can anyone tell me roughly what the outside diameter is for the ventilated portion of the Swedish K shroud? Any idea how large of a suppressor diameter you can use without obstructing the sights?

Thanks in advance.

[Rekraps]

On 2/5/2024 at 11:00 PM, Slowmo said:

Can anyone tell me roughly what the outside diameter is for the ventilated portion of the Swedish K shroud? Any idea how large of a suppressor diameter you can use without obstructing the sights?

Thanks in advance.

I can tell you exactly as I have both. My suppressor, custom made by Joe Jones exactly replicates the Vietnam era SOG suppressor. He used one of my spare shrouds and barrel to make the unit. The reason the cans are so long is exactly as you infer, the sights on the K are flush mounted and thus limit the diameter of the can. 

Stand by, I'll go pull my gun.

This is my KPIST integrally suppressed K.

[Rekraps]

The barrel nut is OEM K, as is the front sight. Joe manufactured the center "can", end nut and interior integral baffles. The barrel itself was cut down and ported (inside) from a spare barrel I sent him. What  you don't see is the sling mount on the other side of the can. That too, came from my supplied shroud. Joe says I have the only one he has made to date. Attached is a pic of the only known real example.

So the barrel nut you know the dimensions as you have a shroud already. The front end cap with sight is the same dimension as the barrel nut. The can shroud itself has an OD of 4.15 cm (415mm) while the barrel nut has an OD of 4.2 cm (420 mm). 

[Rekraps]

I am able to sight and shoot the gun perfectly. When I remove the can and use the OEM shroud, the sight picture is identical. I shoot 147's with the can, and its very pleasant.

[Slowmo]

Thanks! Joe does great work. I haven’t had him undertake nearly as complex of a job as that, but he made me a nice CT45K (more or less a .45 Mk9k/GSL Phoenix but with his threaded baffle construction that eliminates the separate inner tube). I’ve also got one of his Shaw Mk9k cans pending (really more of a CT9KS than a traditional MK9k length despite the name).

[Lewisfan]

I have a threaded barrel with shortened barrel shroud (including OEM front sight).  I shoot a Ti-rant 45 (full-size) with a 9mm adaptor.  I can see the sights over the suppressor.  I'll measure everything when I get a chance.

[Rekraps]

14 hours ago, Slowmo said:

Thanks! Joe does great work. I haven’t had him undertake nearly as complex of a job as that, but he made me a nice CT45K (more or less a .45 Mk9k/GSL Phoenix but with his threaded baffle construction that eliminates the separate inner tube). I’ve also got one of his Shaw Mk9k cans pending (really more of a CT9KS than a traditional MK9k length despite the name).

You know Joe is here in ATL now.  Has a shop in powder Springs.  

[Rekraps]

11 hours ago, Lewisfan said:

I have a threaded barrel with shortened barrel shroud (including OEM front sight).  I shoot a Ti-rant 45 (full-size) with a 9mm adaptor.  I can see the sights over the suppressor.  I'll measure everything when I get a chance.

I knew there would be other solutions! Include pics okay?

[Rekraps]

Just now, Rekraps said:

I knew there would be other solutions! Include pics okay?

I’d love to see how you shorted the shroud!

[Slowmo]

10 hours ago, Rekraps said:

You know Joe is here in ATL now.  Has a shop in powder Springs.  

Yeah, Curtis Tactical was acquired by Shaw last year I believe. I went over there a couple months ago, and the owner showed me around their MG vault. He bought at least part of Larry Vicker’s collection when Larry got into legal hot water. They’ve got what is likely one of the only HK XM8 samples in the US. Very nice people to deal with too.

[Lewisfan]

Ok, here's some "close enough" dimensions.

Barrel OD = 0.66"

Shroud OD = 1.175"

Bottom of shroud to bottom of front sight = 1.66"

Bottom of shroud to top of front sight = 1.875"

Shroud nut (threads on to gun) OD = 1.61"

Doing some quick math it seems that a suppressor sized no more than 2.145" diameter will allow entire front sight pin to be visible.  A suppressor of 2.575" diameter will cover the front sight pin.  Check my math.

And here's a pic of my shorty front shroud / threaded barrel.  Good luck!

Edited February 12 by Lewisfan
Doh! Can't measure. Made corrections.

[Lewisfan]

With Ti-rant (45) installed.

[Slowmo]

Thanks for the detailed measurements! That‘s a lot more room to work with than I was expecting.

Now I guess I need to figure out the barrel situation. I’ve read a place or two that a Suomi barrel will actually work in a Swedish K. Anyone know if that is true? Would be easy to have one cut to appropriate length and threaded if it will work.

[Lewisfan]

Are you getting a registered transferable machinegun, making a pistol clone, a post sample, or what?  If you're spending $25k+ for a transferable gun then buy yourself some parts kits and extras.  And yes, get a barrel and shroud cut / threaded / made to suit your needs.  I'm a little confused with trying to cut corners unless you're building up a pistol or SBR.  Even if you're doing that you should have parts that you can measure (?). You lost me.

[Slowmo]

2 hours ago, Lewisfan said:

Are you getting a registered transferable machinegun, making a pistol clone, a post sample, or what?  If you're spending $25k+ for a transferable gun then buy yourself some parts kits and extras.  And yes, get a barrel and shroud cut / threaded / made to suit your needs.  I'm a little confused with trying to cut corners unless you're building up a pistol or SBR.  Even if you're doing that you should have parts that you can measure (?). You lost me.

I have a transferable pending, so it is not in my possession.

Regarding the barrel, I don’t see any originals for sale anywhere, but I do see Suomi barrels for sale, hence my question. Also, I generally think it makes a lot more sense to buy parts than parts kits.

[StrangeRanger]

10 hours ago, Slowmo said:

 

Regarding the barrel, I don’t see any originals for sale anywhere...

https://indianapolisordnance.com/parts/Swedish-K?product_id=160

[Rekraps]

10 hours ago, Slowmo said:

I have a transferable pending, so it is not in my possession.

Regarding the barrel, I don’t see any originals for sale anywhere, but I do see Suomi barrels for sale, hence my question. Also, I generally think it makes a lot more sense to buy parts than parts kits.

Since I have bought my K's the availability of parts and accessories has dried up substantially. Stranger Ranger is correct, IO has barrels, but make sure you tell them you want to have the unit blued (they sell them in the white) AND make clear that if the unit does not arrive it's their responsibility not yours.

Finding complete spare bolts, barrels, shrouds, mainsprings is going to be a challenge. Also, accessories like brass catchers, night sights, coffin mags w^pouches is tough. Even tougher is original slings and stick mag pouches, good condition drums and pouches. I have an extra 7 round stick mag pouch if you want it. It cost me $115 and is in excellent condition.

One of the nice things about your "L" series gun is that the mag well is removeable so you can us drums and coffin mags. Some fitting may be required, but it's an easy process. 

Regarding the can, IMO I'd go integral only because of the history of the gun and the fact that integral cans were used at one time. 

[Rekraps]

16 hours ago, Lewisfan said:

With Ti-rant (45) installed.

I love what you've done with the shroud! I note also that your unit is a M45B configuration (select fire) yet has the removeable mag well. Did you build this yourself?

[Slowmo]

32 minutes ago, StrangeRanger said:

https://indianapolisordnance.com/parts/Swedish-K?product_id=160

33 minutes ago, Rekraps said:

Since I have bought my K's the availability of parts and accessories has dried up substantially. Stranger Ranger is correct, IO has barrels, but make sure you tell them you want to have the unit blued (they sell them in the white) AND make clear that if the unit does not arrive it's their responsibility not yours.

Finding complete spare bolts, barrels, shrouds, mainsprings is going to be a challenge. Also, accessories like brass catchers, night sights, coffin mags w^pouches is tough. Even tougher is original slings and stick mag pouches, good condition drums and pouches. I have an extra 7 round stick mag pouch if you want it. It cost me $115 and is in excellent condition.

One of the nice things about your "L" series gun is that the mag well is removeable so you can us drums and coffin mags. Some fitting may be required, but it's an easy process. 

Regarding the can, IMO I'd go integral only because of the history of the gun and the fact that integral cans were used at one time. 

Thanks for the link, StrangeRanger! I think the answer is "yes," but does anyone know with certainty if an M45D barrel will work with a Wilson L tube? Rekraps, are you saying that if I ask them to blue it (and presumably pay them for the work), they will do so? I only see the option to buy in the white.

I also spoke with Pike Arms as their website shows Swedish K barrels, including the option of threaded Swedish K barrels, as "coming soon." Supposedly the employee who was working on that project had some serious health problems and has been out of work for a while, but it sounded like they are still planning to make them at some point in the future.

I've had pretty good luck finding other spare parts like sight components, bolt, sear, extractor, springs, etc. The barrel and shroud have remained elusive. Luckily, I already had a good stash of drums and coffins thanks to Lage. I got some of the 36-rd sticks from Clearview, and they look practically brand new.

I may at some point go with a integral setup, but to start with I'll probably just try to get a 3-lug barrel setup to use my existing suppressors since it sounds like there is plenty of sight clearance.

[Lewisfan]

All the select fire kits that I've seen here in the US have the removable magwell.  When I had the gun rebuilt I had it done with the (now) more common select fire variant.  I like the hook on the end cap (extra security) plus I have all the spares from previously available select fire kits.  Everything works great. It rarely (if ever) gets used in "single" mode. 

It seems that there are LOTS of parts kits "out there" relative to the number of transferable guns. I'm always amazed at how these kits just evaporate one day.

[Lewisfan]

Whatacountry.com has a kit listed.  I just checked - they were out but must've found at least one. Barrels are barrels (as far as I know) between all the K variants.  Another barrel listed on G#$Broker yesterday. As previously noted there's a lot of K spares "out there".  Maybe a "want to buy" request will yield some results.  Good luck.

One more note - I don't believe that your tube "designation" (L or MB(?) for Wilson guns) makes any difference for parts being interchangeable.  The only differences that I know are the end caps with / without a hook (need a tab on the receiver to secure the hook) and fire control parts on the select fire vs non-select fire variants.  Even the Port Said parts work just fine.  Bolts, mags, shrouds, barrels, removable magwell components, spring, should all cross-pollinate just fine.  I hope that this helps.

[Rekraps]

8 minutes ago, Lewisfan said:

Whatacountry.com has a kit listed.  I just checked - they were out but must've found at least one. Barrels are barrels (as far as I know) between all the K variants.  Another barrel listed on G#$Broker yesterday. As previously noted there's a lot of K spares "out there".  Maybe a "want to buy" request will yield some results.  Good luck.

One more note - I don't believe that your tube "designation" (L or MB(?) for Wilson guns) makes any difference for parts being interchangeable.  The only differences that I know are the end caps with / without a hook (need a tab on the receiver to secure the hook) and fire control parts on the select fire vs non-select fire variants.  Even the Port Said parts work just fine.  Bolts, mags, shrouds, barrels, removable magwell components, spring, should all cross-pollinate just fine.  I hope that this helps.

Any M45 barrel is interchangeable, and all MB and L series parts also. Most were built off Port Said kits, but if you're lucky, a few were also Crown kits. All were KPIST kits. (M45).

[Rekraps]

But of course this does not answer your question as to whether Suomi barrels will fit. That my friend, I don't know.

[Slowmo]

5 hours ago, Rekraps said:

Any M45 barrel is interchangeable, and all MB and L series parts also. Most were built off Port Said kits, but if you're lucky, a few were also Crown kits. All were KPIST kits. (M45).

Good to know, thanks!

[Rekraps]

8 hours ago, Lewisfan said:

All the select fire kits that I've seen here in the US have the removable magwell.  When I had the gun rebuilt I had it done with the (now) more common select fire variant.  I like the hook on the end cap (extra security) plus I have all the spares from previously available select fire kits.  Everything works great. It rarely (if ever) gets used in "single" mode. 

It seems that there are LOTS of parts kits "out there" relative to the number of transferable guns. I'm always amazed at how these kits just evaporate one day.

So I reread your post, and something is not right. The select fire M45B (that was the select fire version) did not have a removeable magazine well, that was on the M45 KPIST only. I wonder what's up...?