Pre-May to transferable

[Frank I.]

The pre-May to transferable discussions have faded from the boards.

Has anyone successfully transferred a former pre-May gun to a non-SOT?

I filed FOIA on several pre-May guns that flipped to transferable, only one came back with a history of an LE Form 5

[BillinBama]

Yes, let's hear from some successful transfers, or Tales of woe if they were denied. Gotta be several of these from folks who jumped at the chance to make a nice profit on a miracle gun.

[Frank I.]

I received two more FOIA requests back…

It looks like my Sterling is not going to be transferable, no evidence of an LE form 5 .

My 1972 dated MP5 may be transferable… import form reads “imported for sale to law enforcement agencies”  Two hundred were imported at a cost of $350.00 each. Last page says Morristown, NJ Sheriff’s Department 1976, no more info.

So far it looks like only two of my eight guns that flipped will possibly be transferable. There is a good chance my UZI may be transferable because it came with a form that it transferred to a PD. No FOIA back on it yet.

UPDATE It looks like my UZI is transferable! was sold to Bingham County Sheriff's Office, Idaho

import form reads LAW ENFORCEMENT  

 

[BillinBama]

When did you submit the FOIA requests?

[Frank I.]

I submitted the FOIAs online in early June, the first four responses came back in about three weeks, on 6/28/2024, and two more came back today 7/18/2024

3 out of the 8 that flipped to transferable came back with LE form 5 history, the others did not. I am expecting two more, a NESA BAR and a Chinese Type 56 AKM.

However, on some requests, it states  (1-2-3 etc  "forms withheld") so who knows what those would have shown. My post sample that flipped the FOIA request came back with only 1 transfer, the one to me, and stated "2 pages withheld" 

With LE provenance... MP5, UZI, 1928 Savage Thompson : - )

Forms state imported for LE use only and the tax-exempt box is checked transfer "to or from LE"

[RoscoeTurner]

Frank, that is very interesting.  I have a DS M1928A1 that came out of a sheriff's department in south Alabama that may be worth a try in all of this.  The DS UZI I have was imported in the 1970s by Law Enforcement Sales in Illinois, no idea if it ever went to a department or not.

[BillinBama]

I just filed five FOIA requests for info on four guns that now show as transferable plus one pre sample MP5 that doesn't, but I want to see what it shows.  Now to wait.

[zavrit]

Are you mailing the FOIA letter or emailing it?  

The last one I did took over a year to get a reply, but that was when I mailed it (about 5 years ago).  

I've emailed a signed letter to ATF asking for transfer status confirmation. Email was sent to  NFAFAX@atf.gov  Haven't heard back yet.  

I'm doing this for an MG34.  I highly doubt it'll end up being a transferable, but would like confirmation.  

[Robert Henley]

I worked a deal on a pre-May UZI that was showing transferable on a friend's SOT inventory (he did a trial run of transferring to himself on an eF4 without an issue), and when he transferred it to my local SOT it showed restricted on the eF3.  A call by my friend to ATF resulted in the representative saying he had to have a letter from ATF to confirm the reclassification to transferable.  I was advised by my friend that ATF advised to cancel the transfer to my local SOT.  In a holding pattern now waiting for letter from ATF.

Let me know your thoughts.

Robert

[Frank I.]

2 hours ago, zavrit said:

Are you mailing the FOIA letter or emailing it?  

The last one I did took over a year to get a reply, but that was when I mailed it (about 5 years ago).  

I've emailed a signed letter to ATF asking for transfer status confirmation. Email was sent to  NFAFAX@atf.gov  Haven't heard back yet.  

I'm doing this for an MG34.  I highly doubt it'll end up being a transferable, but would like confirmation.  

FOIA requests are now done on line, I got most of mine back in a few weeks.

There is detailed information on how to file a FOIA request in Tom Davis' book "Thompson: Colt’s, West Hurley’s & More." It is available on Amazon or contact Tom who is a frequent contributor to the Thompson  board on this site.

 

 

[zavrit]

Thanks.  I revised my FOIA letter I've used for other machine guns and just submitted it with the Form DOJ-361 along with other documents. 

I really like this process.  Much better than mailing it in!

It'll be interesting to see what information is provided.  I'll post an update when I hear from them.   

[Got Uzi]

I’m awaiting a response on my first FOIA request. I’ll be sending in FOIA requests in my M1’s to see if they change status even tho they are still “yellow” in my inventory…we all know that doesn’t seem to mean much at this point 

[BRMCII]

10 hours ago, zavrit said:

Thanks.  I revised my FOIA letter I've used for other machine guns and just submitted it with the Form DOJ-361 along with other documents. 

I really like this process.  Much better than mailing it in!

It'll be interesting to see what information is provided.  I'll post an update when I hear from them.   

Did you e-file the DOJ form? You say "much better than mainline it in".

 

[zavrit]

Yes, I e-filed the Form DOJ-361 with my other documents.  All uploaded at once through the portal.  

I printed DOJ-361 and completed the form.  I scanned the signed form and uploaded it with my other documents.  Nothing was mailed.  

 

[Robert Henley]

I mailed a FOIA request not long ago.  Didn't realize it was online now.  I assume you can mail in if desired (or in my case already did)?  Thanks.

[BillinBama]

I mailed a batch last week and received confirmation emails on each one almost immediately, except one.  That one came today.  Gov't efficiency.  Now to wait.

[Robert Henley]

On 7/21/2024 at 3:38 PM, Robert Henley said:

I mailed a FOIA request not long ago.  Didn't realize it was online now.  I assume you can mail in if desired (or in my case already did)?  Thanks.

To answer my own question, for others' benefit, ATF mailed me a DOJ-361 form with instructions to E-file on the portal.  I did so, and now we'll see how long it takes.

[RoscoeTurner]

Will the FOIA automatically show the change in status or do you have to specically ask for that when sending the FOIA in?

[Frank I.]

2 hours ago, RoscoeTurner said:

Will the FOIA automatically show the change in status or do you have to specically ask for that when sending the FOIA in?

No, all you get are redacted transfer forms, "allegedly" if the gun was imported for Law Enforcement use, not a dealer sales sample it will now be transferable.

What you want to look for is a form 5 to a LE agency. Of my eight guns that became "transferable" in my online inventory, only 3 show any LE transfers. Those forms say "Law Enforcement Use Only"  The phase "Sales Sample" doesn't appear on the forms until they were transferred to a dealer.

LE showing provenance;  MP5, UZI, Thompson...possibly a Chinese Type 56 AKM that says LAW ENFORCEMENT SALES SAMPLE FOR  (redacted) not sure about that one 

[RoscoeTurner]

1 hour ago, Frank Iannamico said:

No, all you get are redacted transfer forms, "allegedly" if the gun was imported for Law Enforcement use, not a dealer sales sample it will now be transferable.

What you want to look for is a form 5 to a LE agency. Of my eight guns that became "transferable" in my online inventory, only 3 show any LE transfers. Those forms say "Law Enforcement Use Only"  The phase "Sales Sample" doesn't appear on the forms until they were transferred to a dealer.

LE showing provenance;  MP5, UZI, Thompson...possibly a Chinese Type 56 AKM that says LAW ENFORCEMENT SALES SAMPLE FOR  (redacted) not sure about that one 

Thanks, I know for a fact my M1928A1 has law enforcement history with two departments so hopefully they did the paperwork correctly.

[zavrit]

Update on my FOIA submitted through the portal:

July 20 - uploaded to portal

July 30 - confirmation email: 

This is to acknowledge receipt of your Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request dated July 20, 2024, and received by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) on July 22, 2024, in which you requested records concerning your National Firearms Act weapons history. Your request was assigned ATF tracking number 2024-01---. Please refer to this number in any future communications regarding this request.

The records you seek require a search in at least one other office within ATF. Accordingly, your request presents “unusual circumstances” under the FOIA. See 5 U.S.C. § 552(a)(6)(B)(iii)(I). Because of these unusual circumstances, we are extending the time limit to respond to your request by ten additional days, as permitted by the statute. We have not completed a search to determine whether there are records within the scope of your request. The time needed to process your request will depend on the complexity of our records search and on the volume and complexity of any records located.

For your information, this office assigns incoming requests to one of three tracks: simple, complex, or expedited. Each request is then handled on a first-in, first-out basis in relation to other requests in the same track. Simple requests usually receive a response in approximately one month, whereas complex requests necessarily take longer. Your request was assigned to the Simple track. It was placed in chronological order based on the date of receipt and will be handled as quickly as possible when it is assigned for processing.

Because this Office is not assessing any fees in connection with the processing of FOIA requests at this time, there is no need for us to determine whether your request qualifies for a waiver of fees.

If you have any questions regarding the status of your request, you may contact our FOIA Public Liaison at 202-648-7390. Additionally, you may contact the Office of Government Information Services (OGIS) at the National Archives and Records Administration to inquire about the FOIA mediation services they offer. The contact information for OGIS is as follows: Office of Government Information Services, National Archives and Records Administration, 8601 Adelphi Road-OGIS, College Park, Maryland 20740-6001; e-mail at ogis@nara.gov; telephone at 202-741-5770; toll free at 1-877-684-6448; or facsimile at 202-741-5769.

Sincerely,

Hirsh D. Kravitz
Acting Chief
Information and Privacy Governance Division

 

[Frank I.]

One thing to look for on older form 5s is a series of boxes that state the reason for the tax-exempt transfer. 

One says "to a government entity" other later forms read "to or from a government entity"   

Another clue is the import form 6 will state "imported for sales  to law enforcement agencies" or something similar

On the last page of two of mine they named the agency that bought them. 

[Got Uzi]

Zavrit-I got the same email and IF that holds true…I’ll have the results Saturday or before.

[zavrit]

Got Uzi,  it’ll be interesting to see if they maintain their timeframe.  When I have an update, I’ll post here.  

[Ryo]

I filed FOIA in late June.. no response yet.